15:04:53 RRSAgent has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:04:58 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-wot-ngsi-ld-irc 15:05:00 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WoT-NGSI-LD#February_17%2C_2025 15:05:05 meeting: WoT and NGSI-LD 15:05:14 martin has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:05:48 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Franck_Le_Gall, Ken_Zangelin, Martin_Bauer 15:07:04 present+ Juanjo_Hierro 15:07:16 rrsagent, make log public 15:07:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:07:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz 15:07:41 chair: McCool 15:08:02 topic: Minutes 15:08:05 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html Feb-3 15:08:19 mm: (goes through the minutes) 15:10:45 typos fixed; approved 15:10:49 topic: Cancellations 15:11:12 mm: cancellation on Feb 24 15:11:25 ... the next meeting will be March 3 15:12:28 ... we can keep the meeting weekly but can cancel the meeting if people are not available 15:12:29 Franck has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:12:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:12:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz 15:12:42 topic: Activities 15:12:50 subtopic: Resources 15:13:01 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/blob/main/resources.md resources.md 15:13:12 mm: I've been reading the NGSI-LD spec 15:13:36 ... basically, NGSI-LD discover the database 15:14:16 ... what is interesting is that WoT Directory also finds the TD as the database 15:14:25 ... so very similar design with each other 15:14:52 martin: we have open APIs 15:15:01 mm: ok 15:15:09 ... the difference from my viewpoint is 15:15:16 ... the WoT Discovery is very simple 15:16:15 ... we can get Thing Description, which is JSON-LD 15:16:27 jhierro7 has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:16:27 ... what would be the technical requirements? 15:16:41 ... 1. context management 15:17:05 ... we can use nested contents 15:17:08 NGSI-LD OpenAPI is available here: https://forge.etsi.org/rep/cim/ngsi-ld-openapi 15:17:14 ... wondering about the compatibility 15:17:27 ... 2. TD using special Things 15:17:37 ... one of those is default values 15:17:53 ... normalize the TD to formalize the data 15:18:05 ken: we also have default values too 15:18:25 martin: but maybe a bit different level... 15:18:34 ... we use RDF as representation 15:18:51 ... what is our structure looks like 15:19:04 mm: default value is just one example 15:19:15 ... we should investigate the differences 15:19:23 NGSI-LD doesn't use RDF but JSON-LD as representation. 15:19:49 s/RDF/JSON-LD/ 15:20:11 q+ 15:20:50 ... a set of nodes to be included 15:21:29 JSON-LD is a serialization of RDF (as abstract model) - RDF/XML is another serialization of RDF 15:22:07 juanjo: definitely interesting 15:22:19 ... digital twin characteristics 15:22:35 ... we could generate TD based o the TM template 15:23:56 ... have to discuss the digital twin class 15:24:21 mm: TD describes entities 15:24:26 ... could be a digital twin 15:24:30 q? 15:24:53 ... what TDs bring to the table include data modeling languages 15:25:05 ... describing the payload 15:25:34 ... also describe affordance, i.e., property, action and event 15:25:56 q? 15:26:53 kaz: tx for your investigation, McCool 15:27:22 ... we should now start to describe what is done one the NGSI-LD side and what on the WoT side 15:27:31 ... based on some concrete use case 15:27:41 This presentation brought the idea I had commented: 15:27:41 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-RI8q1hhnRqaZDwvxnpKnaaxQ0kMGtME/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=115453639179713725602&rtpof=true&sd=true 15:27:53 ... to clarify what the NGSI-LD broker and the WoT Directory do there 15:27:56 mm: yeah 15:28:17 ... we should capture the use cases based on our understandings 15:28:47 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/issues/8 Issue 8 - Capture Use Cases 15:29:00 @@@ Juanjo's link here 15:29:32 q? 15:29:33 ack k 15:29:48 q+ 15:30:41 mm: should add a link for that also to the resources.md 15:32:05 juanjo: also a PR to add another resource 15:32:14 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/pull/9 PR 9 - Adding presentation in section about Presentations 15:32:55 s/add another resource/add that to the resource.md/ 15:33:02 mm: (merged) 15:33:58 ... (shows slide 7. Compatibility of NGSI-LD with Thing Models/Descriptions) 15:35:05 ... (also slide 12. Compatibility of NGSI-LD with Thing Descriptions) 15:35:58 juanjo: another PR about the idea of TM as template 15:36:15 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/pull/10 PR 10 - Update section on Thing Models as Templates 15:36:25 mm: (merged) 15:36:36 ... let's think about the next steps now 15:37:44 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/blob/main/examples/README.md example/README.md 15:37:55 mm: (shows examples/README.md) 15:39:00 present+ Zane_Durkin 15:39:41 ... would create a new Issue to document technical gaps 15:40:55 ... (adds questions) 15:41:57 ... Does "type" abstraction in NGSI-LD map onto the ability of TMs to describe classes of potential TD instances? 15:42:17 ... TMs used for describing the properties of entity types? 15:42:30 q? 15:42:32 q- 15:42:56 ... conceptually, TMs describe classes 15:44:10 ... note that TM doesn't have network interface 15:44:31 q+ 15:44:52 mm: What is the subclass structure? 15:45:13 ... TMs for everything or for subclasses of "entities with affordances/network interfaces"? 15:45:47 juanjo: TM describes what to be exposed 15:46:03 mm: technically, TM is a class of template 15:46:43 ... but it's a templating mechanism 15:48:01 ... (revisits the 3 questions issued within the GitHub Issue) 15:48:14 ... (and adds another question) 15:48:32 In my view, Things Model templates allow to describe the characteristics of any instance of an entity type (Things class if you want) 15:48:32 Things Description can be derived from those templates, by adding forms how those characteristics can be accessed using specific protocols. 15:48:44 ... Should TMs/TDs we attached as annotations or be included in the NGSI-LD type structure? 15:49:37 In such case, TM can be used to describe characteristics of Things = Entity Types 15:49:37 and then, we may specify how TDs can be derived where NGSI-LD is added as form to access characteristics 15:50:01 mm: TMs may so be more "dynamic" than (what seem to be) the pre-defined "types" used by NGSI-LD 15:50:58 ... would like to understand what is possible at the moment 15:51:15 q+ 15:53:14 kaz: some discussion about how to generate TD instance from TM last week during the TD call 15:53:47 ... this discussion about TM and NGSI-LD should be useful for that (=TM vs TD) discussion also 15:54:05 ... so would suggest we clarify our expectation for TM a bit more 15:54:07 q- 15:54:19 mm: yeah, we should have more discussion 15:54:53 ... let's add the link about the discussion from the TD TF too 15:55:01 topic: Other issues 15:55:28 s/issues/issues and PRs/ 15:55:39 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/issues Remaining Issues 15:55:53 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld/pulls Remaining PRs 15:57:04 juanjo: would like to work on some more exercise 15:57:50 mm: let's take a few TMs/TDs and NGSI-LDs to see the differences 15:58:03 The exercise of taking a entity type description using the WoT Models Template, and show how Things Descriptions can be derived using NGSI-LD as form. 15:58:12 (form for access) 15:58:34 s/a entity/an entity/ 15:58:42 s/Things D/Thing D/ 15:59:03 mm: Review and comment on new issues 15:59:13 ... Test importing TDs into NGSI-LD broker 15:59:23 ... Generate a concrete example of using TM/TDs for Digital Twin modelling 15:59:25 topic: AOB 15:59:50 mm: next meeting on March 3 15:59:57 ... will update the agenda 16:00:12 ... we'll keep the meeting as weekly 16:00:39 ... but will send a cancellation notifications based on the actual schedule 16:00:41 [adjourned] 16:00:45 rrsagent, make log public 16:00:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:00:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz 16:40:05 martin has left #wot-ngsi-ld