09:01:26 RRSAgent has joined #data-shapes 09:01:30 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-data-shapes-irc 09:01:30 Zakim has joined #data-shapes 09:01:39 Robert has joined #data-shapes 09:01:43 ajnelson-nist has joined #data-shapes 09:01:45 RRSAgent, make logs Public 09:01:48 present+ 09:02:03 present+ 09:02:05 present+ 09:02:10 present+ 09:02:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed 09:03:09 previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/02/10-data-shapes-minutes.html 09:03:09 next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/02/24-data-shapes-minutes.html 09:03:12 present+ 09:03:18 present+ Andy Seaborne, Robert David, Carine Bournez, Thomas Bergwinkl 09:03:29 present+ Simon Stey 09:04:12 present+ 09:04:12 Chair: Nick 09:04:17 Regrets: Eliana 09:04:31 Simon has joined #data-shapes 09:04:31 bergos has joined #data-shapes 09:04:45 Agenda+ Anything from last meeting? 09:04:51 simonstey has joined #data-shapes 09:04:54 Agenda+ Phase 1 ED 09:04:56 present+ 09:05:14 Agenda+ Issues/PRs 09:05:41 q? 09:06:05 present+ 09:06:10 Scribe: caribou 09:06:13 No items from last meeting 09:06:23 Topic: Anything from last meeting? 09:06:32 [nothing] 09:06:40 Topic: Phase 1 ED 09:07:08 Nick: we'll need drafts for our Phase 1 documents 09:07:26 Holger: we have not done much yet to clean them up 09:07:35 ... opened issues to clear the respec errors 09:07:46 ... no real semantic changes recently 09:08:03 Nick: do you need other people's input? 09:08:14 Holger: Haven't heard from Ashley yet 09:08:24 ... I'll inform the other editors 09:08:43 Nick: I'll ping Ashley 09:09:45 VladimirAlexiev has joined #data-shapes 09:11:14 https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/224 09:11:45 Carine: we will have to discuss shortnames and then send a Call for consensus by email 09:12:17 Topic: Issues/PRs 09:12:30 Nick: we have ~80 issues 09:13:04 q+ 09:13:06 ... is a board of issues useful? 09:13:08 present+ 09:13:40 AlexN: a milestone scheduler could be useful 09:14:13 ... editors can own the milestone button 09:14:18 q+ 09:14:21 q+ 09:14:23 q- 09:14:41 q+ 09:15:16 q- 09:16:23 q+ 09:16:29 Simon: it seems that there are a lot of unused labels 09:16:52 q+ 09:18:31 Nick: I'll check the labels 09:18:45 q- 09:19:39 [discussion about using milestones, or kanban-style board] 09:21:01 q+ 09:22:37 q- 09:23:22 q+ to note that labels can be used for both category (e.g., core, sparql, etc.) and timing (e.g., before FPWD, before CR, before PR), and sortedd/selected by one or both axes at any given moment 09:24:24 AndyS: our issues list is public, I expect issues coming from people outside of the group 09:24:52 ... it's not clear what scope and intent of each doc is 09:25:04 ... we need to create a shared sense of that 09:26:25 Nick: I propose to try to use that milestone-style ? 09:26:31 [no objection] 09:26:39 TallTed, you wanted to note that labels can be used for both category (e.g., core, sparql, etc.) and timing (e.g., before FPWD, before CR, before PR), and sortedd/selected by one 09:26:42 ... or both axes at any given moment 09:27:30 Ted: I wanted to note that labels can be used for both category (e.g., core, sparql, etc.) and timing (e.g., before FPWD, before CR, before PR) 09:27:45 Nick: what do you mean by "timing"? 09:28:05 Ted: labels are flexible, could be any 09:29:03 Nick: in future meetings we may refer to specific parts 09:29:11 ... I'll give it a go 09:29:29 q? 09:29:56 Topic: General business 09:29:57 q+ 09:30:08 q- 09:30:08 Nick: can we discuss about shortnames? 09:30:51 we have /TR/shacl 09:31:00 caribou: "shortname" is what follows TR in the URL 09:31:01 Carine: we need to to select the parts after /TR/ for all deliverables 09:31:17 thx nicholascar 09:31:30 q+ 09:31:55 s/Carine:/caribou: 09:31:59 q+ 09:32:13 Doe we want SHACL Core using just /TR/shacl or something else? 09:32:26 s/Doe/Do/ 09:32:28 q+ 09:32:59 q- 09:33:46 q+ 09:34:50 ack simonstey 09:35:14 +1 to /TR/shacl is overview 09:35:17 q- 09:35:30 q+ to say that these names are *somewhat* flexible until we publish a CR or PR. caribou would have to jump through extra hoops, if we change our minds later about what we choose now. 09:36:25 ack TallTed 09:36:25 TallTed, you wanted to say that these names are *somewhat* flexible until we publish a CR or PR. caribou would have to jump through extra hoops, if we change our minds later about 09:36:28 ... what we choose now. 09:36:34 "overview" is all docs (phase 1 and phase 2) 09:36:38 +1 /TR/shacl could be an evolving overview page that links to the current versions, otherwise shacl12-core and shacl12-sparql 09:36:52 +1 for home page 09:36:58 +1 for home page 09:37:16 +1 for home page 09:37:24 +1 for home page 09:37:40 +1 for home page 09:37:46 Ted: these names are *somewhat* flexible until we publish a CR or PR. caribou would have to jump through extra hoops, if we change our minds later about 09:38:03 also "shacl-core" redirect to "shacl12-core" : moves to current latest etc. 09:38:51 q+ to discuss whether to suggest forward-porting in-page links of 1.0, e.g. "I want `sh:severity` discussion, and I'd linked `https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl/#severity` (1.0's Section 2.1.4) before..." 09:39:54 RDF 1.2 uses rdf12-concepts 09:40:14 +1 to same format as rdf12-* 09:40:43 +1 to same format as rdf12-* 09:41:06 q+ how about Compact, will we call it SHACLC or SHACL-C 09:41:16 shacl1-core... 09:41:23 shacl12-core... 09:41:59 how about Compact, will we call it SHACLC or SHACL-C 09:42:52 shcal12-cs 09:43:09 shacl12-compact 09:43:13 shacl12-compact-syntax 09:43:28 shacl-12-inferencing 09:43:39 +1 to longer "short" names 09:43:40 shacl12-node-expressions 09:43:42 shacl12-profiling 09:44:00 +1 for whole words 09:44:31 currently set to shacl12-inf-rule as per discurrsion 09:44:34 +1 for whole words in general, and I tend to like decimals 09:44:37 q- 09:45:03 q+ 09:46:20 ack me 09:46:24 ack AndyS 09:46:52 q+ 09:46:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-data-shapes-minutes.html caribou 09:47:04 ack ajnelson-nist 09:47:33 Meeting: Data Shapes WG teleconference 09:47:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-data-shapes-minutes.html caribou 09:47:44 https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/agenda-2025-02-17.md 09:48:39 Discussion about https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/246 09:49:09 AlexN: I suggested a graph that looks like it'd be appropriate to provide 09:49:36 q+ 09:49:36 ... do we need something formal? 09:49:48 ack AndyS 09:50:06 AndyS: respec has a feature to include separate documents 09:50:36 ... what document would this be related? or a separate document? 09:50:36 q+ 09:50:47 AlexN: related to the profiling document 09:51:04 ... it's an aid to mix SHACL and OWL into 1 file 09:52:19 ack TallTed 09:52:42 Ted: we need to look at the content 09:54:30 Nick: W3C has long term support for things that are in /TR 09:56:29 +1 to adding test cases 09:56:54 Holger: whenever someone does a PR that has changes, include turtle updated and test case 09:57:30 q+ 09:58:28 ack me 09:58:30 q+ 09:58:39 Holger: [describing node expression discussion] 09:58:50 q+ 09:59:43 ... if you have input to give to the node expression design, it'd be useful 10:00:10 +1 simple first 10:00:28 Holger: only talking about node expressions, not inferencing rules 10:00:47 Nick: request to the WG to chime in soon 10:00:57 q? 10:01:17 AndyS: Issue 250 10:01:43 ... I don't quite understand whether we'll have core published then be able to revise it later 10:01:54 I have to go. cheers! 10:03:19 +1 to AndyS' plan 10:03:21 AndyS: we don't want to commit to the final stage, we can leave it in CR for a long time 10:04:09 q- 10:04:14 variables - complex expressions + rules will need it - will write on #250 10:04:15 q? 10:04:18 ack me 10:04:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/17-data-shapes-minutes.html caribou 10:06:04 present-