17:58:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:58:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/13-aria-irc
17:58:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:58:34 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:58:34 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:58:34 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b57854a-65cb-421e-b9e0-f9a8da31f160/20250213T130000/
17:58:34 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:58:34 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/4jRbCm6
17:58:34 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
17:58:34 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-02-06+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues
17:58:36 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
17:58:38 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:58:41 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Breakouts day https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2025/
17:58:44 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Remove group as allowed child of tree https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2094
17:58:47 <agendabot> agenda+ -> svg element in HTML-AAM, SVG-AAM and WAI-ARIA Graphics Module specs https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2427
17:58:50 <agendabot> agenda+ -> [AriaNotify] Scope proposal for V1 of API https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2426
17:58:53 <agendabot> agenda+ -> A generic element (with aria-live) intervening with the parent/descendant relationship. https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2423
17:58:56 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Should the ARIA WG standardize heuristic-based ignoring of ARIA and related features? And if so, how? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2422
17:58:59 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Add normative text on calculating aria-level, aria-posinset, and aria-setsize https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2104
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18:00:44 <katez> present+
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18:01:09 <ray-schwartz> present+
18:01:15 <filippo-zorzi> present+
18:01:19 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
18:01:20 <smockle> present+
18:01:24 <spectranaut_> present+
18:01:27 <ray-schwartz> scribe: ray-schwartz
18:01:29 <giacomo-petri> present+
18:01:35 <pkra> pkra has joined #aria
18:01:36 <ray-schwartz> I’m going to try
18:01:42 <pkra> present+
18:02:06 <Daniel> present+
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18:02:25 <alisonmaher> present+
18:02:25 <CurtBellew> present+
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18:03:22 <Mario> present+
18:03:22 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:03:22 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/4jRbCm6 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:03:22 <Adam_Page> present+
18:03:30 <Summer> present+
18:04:48 <Mario> present+
18:05:21 <siri> siri has joined #aria
18:09:00 <ray-schwartz> 2297 added two reviewers and removed existing
18:10:32 <ray-schwartz> 2431 closed
18:11:29 <siri> present+
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18:14:17 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:14:17 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-02-06+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:15:49 <ray-schwartz> pkra 2410 look at the specs. changes are fairly contained.
18:16:00 <ray-schwartz> James Editors or anyone else should take a look
18:16:07 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:16:07 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:17:06 <scott> present+
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18:17:28 <Matt_King> present+
18:17:38 <ray-schwartz> @jamesn James isn’t here let’s look at them next week
18:17:42 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:17:42 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:18:22 <ray-schwartz> pkra stale PR review?
18:19:04 <ray-schwartz> jamesn I am not here for next 3 weeks. But someone else can drive. Not wanting Val to do 3 in a row
18:21:28 <ray-schwartz> jamesn evne for those that are approved, we may need to wait for implementation
18:22:08 <ray-schwartz> jamesn Peter can you schedule with Val?
18:22:21 <ray-schwartz> pkra Sure
18:23:33 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:23:33 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> Breakouts day https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2025/ -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:25:08 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: Breakouts day. Wednesday of TPAC. Propose breakouts. If you want feedback form the community. Anyone is welcome to propose a session. 26th of March. Proposals by 12th of march.
18:25:34 <ray-schwartz> @daniel: You don’t need a lot of details to provide.
18:25:46 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:25:46 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Remove group as allowed child of tree https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2094 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:26:03 <daniel-testing> s/pkra /pkra:/g
18:26:33 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: 2094, why is this not merged yet?
18:26:36 <daniel-testing> s/jamesn /jamesn:/g
18:26:55 <ray-schwartz> pkra all we need are validated test?
18:27:09 <scott> q+
18:27:35 <daniel-testing> s/pkra /pkra:/g
18:28:53 <ray-schwartz> scott: we may want to consider assigning multiple people to PRs. It can be a lot of work but we have raised the level of effort for non-editorial PRs because one person may not be able to do it all.
18:29:06 <Adam_Page> +1 to scott, would be enthusiastic to make PR production more collaborative
18:30:06 <ray-schwartz> pkra: should we file bugs with certain validators?
18:30:44 <ray-schwartz> scott: When people know what the parameters are is the author of a PR the one who has to do all of it.
18:30:57 <spectranaut_> q+
18:31:01 <spectranaut_> ack scott
18:31:08 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: MDN can be inaccurate
18:31:12 <jamesn> ack spectranaut_
18:31:23 <jcraig> regrets+ jcraig
18:32:31 <ray-schwartz> spectranaut_: I’ve made follow up issues. Land PR but assign author test. So it’s clear these can be broken up. Bugs on browsers is intimidating. Especially coming form someone who is known. Test make sense to break out.
18:33:05 <ray-schwartz> pkra: Wants to knwo whnat needs doing and who can do it for this issue. But appreciate the broader converstion.
18:33:28 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: validators don’t test everything.
18:33:52 <ray-schwartz> Matt_King: allow children in a tree should have a test for it.
18:34:19 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: Is this something validators would like to test? Ask giacomo-petri
18:34:40 <ray-schwartz> giacomo-petri: Definitely, we need to check this.
18:34:52 <daniel-testing> q+
18:35:21 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: Can we just file against ACT?
18:35:24 <smockle> q+
18:35:41 <jamesn> ack daniel-testing
18:36:02 <jamesn> ack smockle
18:36:29 <ray-schwartz> smockle: Why is it the purview of the ARIA group to open issues?
18:36:43 <ray-schwartz> spectranaut_: It won’t happen unless we ask them to.
18:37:21 <giacomo-petri> q+
18:37:37 <ray-schwartz> scott: I agree with Val. If specs changes you would think they would be on top of it.
18:37:42 <jamesn> ack giacomo-petri
18:38:34 <ray-schwartz> giacomo-petri: as to vendors, we have another problem. If you push something that is not available, why do I need to do it?
18:38:46 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: Do we file against ACT?
18:39:18 <ray-schwartz> scott: It would be a polite thing to do. But not bar ourselves from merging.
18:39:49 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: if we’re not waiting for them to respond, it seems like we should do it.
18:40:00 <ray-schwartz> giacomo-petri; I can do that
18:40:09 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: then we can merge it
18:40:23 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:40:23 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> svg element in HTML-AAM, SVG-AAM and WAI-ARIA Graphics Module specs https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2427 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:42:11 <pkra> q+
18:42:12 <ray-schwartz> @james: 2427 inconsistency in specs. This sounds similar to section and role of region. Section is mapped differently if is has accname or not. Do we want to treat all of these the same?
18:42:21 <scott> scott has joined #aria
18:42:36 <jamesn> ack pkra
18:42:53 <scott> q+
18:43:07 <jamesn> ack scott
18:43:12 <jamesn> +
18:43:14 <ray-schwartz> pkra: wold this interfere with new fandango features? Image description by browser vendors? Auto generated alt text.
18:43:15 <jamesn> q+
18:44:34 <jamesn> q-
18:45:22 <ray-schwartz> scott: generic or none is all well and good, but how improtant is it for people to know they’re entering anSVG adn they may be entering a subdocument or not. Should we ignore ??document role?
18:46:01 <ray-schwartz> pkra: navigable or tabbable inside graphics. There may not be a name by author on root b-c its a complex diagram.
18:46:17 <scott> if the svg ended up being removed, by having a generic or none role - then that seems like it'd be an implementation bug
18:46:50 <ray-schwartz> Matt_King: role none, there isn’t a cascading of it.
18:47:19 <Adam_Page> q+
18:47:28 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: usually yo uput aria-hidden on it. If graphics document doesn’t require an accmane does it help?
18:47:44 <ray-schwartz> giacomo-petri: it∏s a spec detail but it’s still an empty image
18:48:04 <scott> q+ to say "if rendered as an empty _image_ is that not potentially an implementation issue as well?"
18:48:15 <jamesn> ack Adam_Page
18:48:19 <ray-schwartz> giacomo-petri: render as generic it’sstill available.
18:49:16 <ray-schwartz> Adam_Page: SVG of artwork. given a title as name. but in iOS was treated as decorative. We allowed implicit role of documemt to persist. Once we overrode with role image it was fine. May be relevant.
18:49:17 <jamesn> ack scott
18:49:17 <Zakim> scott, you wanted to say "if rendered as an empty _image_ is that not potentially an implementation issue as well?"
18:50:44 <ray-schwartz> scott: If SVG graphics document is that an implementation issue. You sould have used the image element or role. If graphics doc didn’t require a name that may be fine. There might be conetent in here. But if it∏san image with no accname then it∏s an implementation bug of graphics document.
18:51:12 <ray-schwartz> Matt_King: does AT announce graphics document? How does this work today?
18:51:33 <pkra> q+
18:51:34 <ray-schwartz> Matt_King: I’ve never heard that announced.
18:52:07 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: Is there a resolution?
18:52:09 <giacomo-petri> q+
18:52:20 <jamesn> ack pkra
18:52:21 <ray-schwartz> Matt_King: We may need to figure out what the problems of
18:54:05 <ray-schwartz> pkra: SVG exploration feature would go outside the SVG. We tested setting role presentation on SVG and Chrome wanted to describe it. We’ve had a couple of these SVG issues. We need to make a more serious effort, task force of popele who want to dig into it. James Craig has an interest. I may also get involved.
18:54:18 <jamesn> ack giacomo-petri
18:55:01 <ray-schwartz> giacomo-petri: I agree with Peter. We still need people to update, etc.
18:55:25 <ray-schwartz> zakim, next item
18:55:25 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- -> [AriaNotify] Scope proposal for V1 of API https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2426 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:57:20 <ray-schwartz> alisonmaher: 2426, interrupt and type need inplementers to get onboard. Need more notification types. Want to ship so authors can use. Do we need a more scoped version for version 1.
18:57:38 <scott> +1 to getting something shipped, even if it's less than the original proposed set of features
18:57:45 <ray-schwartz> Matt_King: In favor of getting this in people’s hands sooner.
18:58:01 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: agreed. Anyone disagree?
18:58:28 <ray-schwartz> spectranaut_: should we talk about this more?
18:58:59 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: if anyone wants to suggest, they can do that in the issue. General  consent from the group.
18:59:23 <ray-schwartz> keithamus: there’s an alternative to supports, but otherwise I support it.
19:00:01 <ray-schwartz> jamesn: we have agreement
19:00:44 <ray-schwartz> zakim, end meeting
19:00:44 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been katez, ray-schwartz, filippo-zorzi, smockle, spectranaut_, giacomo-petri, pkra, Daniel, alisonmaher, CurtBellew, Mario, Adam_Page, Summer,
19:00:47 <Zakim> ... siri, scott, Matt_King, keithamus
19:00:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
19:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/13-aria-minutes.html Zakim
19:00:55 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ray-schwartz; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
19:00:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
19:03:14 <daniel-testing> s/I’m going to try//
19:03:22 <daniel-testing> rrsagent, make minutes
19:03:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/13-aria-minutes.html daniel-testing
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