13:02:54 RRSAgent has joined #wot 13:02:58 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-irc 13:02:59 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 13:03:47 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Josh_Thomas, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:03:55 chair: Koster 13:04:01 scribenick: McCool 13:04:15 dezell has joined #wot 13:04:29 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#12_February_2025 13:04:30 present+ David_Ezell 13:05:23 rrsagent, make log public 13:05:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:05:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:06:47 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura 13:06:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:06:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:07:56 topics: agenda 13:08:21 mk: any additions or changes to the agenda? 13:08:53 mk: agenda approved 13:09:09 i|any ad|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#12_February_2025 Agenda for today| 13:09:13 topic: guests 13:09:16 mk: none 13:09:25 topic: minutes 13:09:27 s/topics: agenda/topic: Agenda/ 13:09:33 s/guests/Guests/ 13:09:39 s/minutes/Minutes/ 13:09:47 https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-wot-minutes.html 13:10:04 s|https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-wot-minutes.html|-> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-wot-minutes.html Feb-5| 13:10:56 present+ Charith_Perera 13:11:01 Charith has joined #wot 13:11:13 present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda 13:12:13 mk: review offline expected; main points, inclusiveness asked for people to also comment on issue; updated holiday (Golden Week); policies (merged IE policy); usecase backlog and resolution to allow UC TF to draft proposed UC/US 13:12:16 matsuda has joined #wot 13:12:21 mk: any corrections? 13:12:31 mk: no corrections, minutes approved. 13:12:39 topic: Quick Items 13:13:44 ege: For inclusiveness, is a TF resolution; have labelled all issues 13:13:56 https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3A%22registry%20mechanism%22 13:14:06 q? 13:14:24 mm: link to resolution? 13:14:36 https://www.w3.org/2025/01/29-wot-td-minutes.html#a18e 13:15:27 s|https://www.w3.org/2025/01/29-wot-td-minutes.html#a18e|-> https://www.w3.org/2025/01/29-wot-td-minutes.html#a18e TD-TF Resolution on Binding Registry| 13:15:28 ege: here is the text of the resolution: RESOLUTION: The binding document linked in the registry entry DOES NOT have to be open to read, use, implement. However, the binding MUST be reviewable by the reviewers. 13:16:08 present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda 13:16:10 q+ 13:16:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:16:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:17:21 mk: still have to make sure there is no other legal review needed, but I think this policy leads to a simple separation of responsibilty. There should be an open summary document, however; we can have a form to collect the necessary information, and this information would be published in a W3C document so would have to have W3C copyright. 13:17:52 mk: so for instance, it would be good to have information on the various restrictions in the summary document. 13:17:57 q? 13:18:20 q- 13:18:30 kaz: ok with basic policy; maybe should have a resolution by the entire group. 13:18:53 proposal: The binding document linked in the registry entry DOES NOT have to be open to read, use, implement. However, the binding MUST be reviewable by the reviewers. 13:19:13 proposal: The binding document linked in the registry entry DOES NOT have to be open to read, use, or implement. However, the binding MUST be reviewable by the reviewers. 13:19:14 Charith has joined #wot 13:19:19 dape has joined #wot 13:20:47 q? 13:20:51 s/entire group./entire group. And then we should think about how to proceed (=the concrete procedure) next./ 13:20:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:20:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:21:04 resolution: The binding document linked in the registry entry DOES NOT have to be open to read, use, or implement. However, the binding MUST be reviewable by the reviewers. 13:21:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:21:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:21:32 topic: Notices 13:21:49 mk: none 13:21:53 topic: Meetups 13:22:12 i|proposal:|@@@ first proposal will be removed later| 13:22:17 mk: WoT CG meetup on Feb 20 - JSON Schema and AI 13:22:20 present+ Daniel_Peintner 13:22:44 ... another one on March 10 on mixed reality 13:23:14 q+ 13:23:16 mz: no new plans for WoT JP CG 13:23:29 mk: Smart Cities IG, split meeting for two timezones 13:23:49 kaz: US Pacific Doodle is ongoing - please respond 13:23:49 -> https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/dNXo75va Pacific-friendly poll 13:24:51 kaz: so far Monday 10pm JST and Tuesday 10am or 11am JST are main candidates 13:25:37 s/main candidates/main candidates, but there are some more candidates for the Pacific-friendly one./ 13:26:19 s/friendly one./friendly one. So if you're interested but you've not responded yet, please respond./ 13:26:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:26:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:26:55 mm: no meetings planned, but looking at additional members, scope, some proposals (e.g. Distributed Workers) 13:27:11 i|WoT CG meet|subtopic: WoT CG| 13:27:17 s/no meetings/for CEC, no meetings/ 13:27:24 i|no new|subtopic: WoT JP CG| 13:27:30 topic: Liaisons 13:27:41 seb: OPC UA, talked about binding ontology 13:27:41 i|Smart Cities IG|subtopic: Smart Cities IG| 13:27:59 ... many definitions we don't really need 13:28:06 i|no meetings|subtopic: Cloud-Edge-Client CG| 13:28:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:28:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:28:16 ... started discussion on mappings, OPC UA has node-set file 13:28:30 ... strategy in standard how mapping looks like 13:28:41 i|OPC UA,|subtopic: OPC Foundation| 13:28:47 ... if you have a node-set, would like to be able to convert it to a TD 13:28:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:28:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:29:01 q? 13:29:04 q- 13:29:14 mm: when do expect things to be wrapped up? 13:29:22 seb: definitely before the end of the year 13:30:05 ... no big blocking points, very optimistic; should have an early draft in a few weeks 13:30:17 mk: a lot of the big issues were resolved early on 13:30:36 ... nodeset can be anything - may not have an interface? 13:30:59 ... is that correct, e.g. can it be a room? 13:31:43 seb: not an expert, will get a data model tree, may be references to other servers; but also a lot of things in nodeset that are not needed in TD 13:32:05 ... idea is to take a node-set as a source to generate a TD, not to map ALL the information in the node-set 13:32:06 q+ 13:32:19 q+ 13:32:49 seb: will just reflect data model in node-set file, won't necessarily copy all metadata 13:34:01 mm: issue really is do we have OPC UA nodeset that correspond to affordance-less TDs that just represent real-world entities, e.g. rooms? 13:34:38 seb: is a feature to refer to external references... actually use JSON Schema 13:34:58 mk: patterns is $ref - similar to SDF 13:35:10 ack m 13:35:11 q? 13:35:13 ack k 13:35:45 kaz: is nodeset here a group of Things? What do you mean by node-set? 13:36:04 seb: just an OPC UA concept, but is like a TD; only used in OPC UA. 13:36:05 q+ 13:36:27 seb: is however serialized in XML that describes the full data hierarchy in OPC UA server 13:37:00 ... is a very hierarchical structure, have links etc. to parent node, etc. 13:37:21 ... don't need that information in TD... 13:37:53 kaz: if that is the case, then a node-set can have sub-node-sets? 13:38:07 ... e.g. room could have AC node inside it, etc? 13:38:44 seb: yes, that is the case; call them objects, not devices 13:38:54 ... for each object we will have a TD 13:39:07 kaz: ok, so we also need to think about gaps, collections 13:39:18 q? 13:40:20 mm: suggest that we keep it simple at first, maybe look for more complex test cases in OPC UA that use collections 13:40:42 mk: need to think more about formalism around linking, etc. 13:41:14 seb: OPC UA people very interested in this and WoT 13:41:35 sub-topic: NGSI-LD 13:41:42 i|mk:|kaz: Yeah, agree. However, we still need to identify the gaps and how to bind TD with their specs for necessary use cases.| 13:41:56 s/sub-topic/subtopic/ 13:41:59 scribe+ 13:42:03 mm: no meeting this wee 13:42:07 s/wee/week/ 13:42:16 ... but I've read their specs 13:42:27 ... their basic concept is property graphs 13:42:48 ... WoT TD stores correction of Things 13:43:08 ... conceptually related to OPC UA as well 13:43:33 ... using NGSI-LD broker, which is essentially a directory 13:43:41 ... quite interesting 13:43:48 ... need to explore a few things 13:44:03 ... blank node approach for property graphs 13:44:10 q+ 13:44:28 ... how to model specific cases is the question 13:44:35 ... e.g., smart cities 13:44:53 ... we don't currently have many participants in the joint meeting on Monday 13:45:05 ... but there is useful stuff there 13:45:21 q+ 13:45:30 ... another point is how to handle geolocation information 13:45:55 ... WoT Directory 2.0 can use NGSI-LD possibly 13:46:17 ... please join the joint meeting on Monday 13:46:26 ... we'll have the meeting next Monday 13:46:39 s/how to/NGSI-LD already/ 13:46:42 s/handle/handles/ 13:47:02 kaz: tx for your research, McCool 13:47:03 kaz: thanks, based on results let's continue discussion with them 13:47:19 s/kaz: tx for your research, McCool// 13:47:31 mk: what is trajectory of TDs to describe things that do not have affordances... 13:47:32 i|thanks|scribenick: McCool| 13:47:34 q+ 13:47:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:47:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:47:45 ack mc 13:47:49 ack k 13:47:50 ack mjk 13:47:50 ack mj 13:48:25 i|Yeah|scribenick: kaz| 13:48:36 i|need to think|scribenick: McCool| 13:48:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:48:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:48:55 mm: my thought here is we should not reinvent RDF using Things 13:49:24 ... for modelling relationships etc. we can just use linked data, and can use TDs only for "Things" that DO have affordances 13:49:33 mk: ok, let's talk about that 13:49:40 topic: Schedule 13:49:47 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Holidays_and_Upcoming_Events Holidays 13:50:16 mm: so we DID decide to cancel meetings during Golden Week; in wiki 13:51:41 mm: as for publications, deadlines are coming up, will have to start thinking seriously about the process, queuing things up, etc. 13:52:12 dape: regarding Scripting API, think we can remove that from the agenda, the time is working well 13:52:15 q+ 13:52:51 kaz: several holidays in US, Japan; late Feb, only Feb 26 cancelled, right? 13:54:59 ... suggest cancel meetings on Feb 24: chairs, NGSI-LD 13:55:11 q- 13:55:17 mm: no problem, no main call that week, we just have to let NGSI-LD know 13:55:42 topic: Policies 13:55:55 mk: no updates, still working on moderator policy 13:56:37 ... IE policy draft - we agreed to merge 13:56:42 mk: ok, I will do that 13:57:04 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-wot-minutes.html#2233 IE policy discussion on Feb 5 13:57:23 Topic: AOB 13:57:34 q+ 13:57:40 mk: any quick TF reports? 13:58:04 dape: Scripting, main goal is to allow for extending API to query and cancel actions 13:58:09 ... underspecified in the TD 13:58:23 ... waiting for TD to have a good solution 13:58:25 q? 13:58:29 ack d 13:58:36 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-wot-script-minutes.html#8bf6 Feb-5 Scripting minutes 13:58:53 mk: adjourn 13:59:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:59:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:23:53 TallTed has joined #wot 16:09:39 Zakim has left #wot 16:54:28 bigbluehat has joined #wot 17:14:24 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 17:32:27 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 17:37:34 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 17:57:47 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 18:13:34 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 18:30:04 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 18:47:52 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 19:06:59 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 19:15:27 JKRhb has joined #wot 19:33:40 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 19:52:36 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 19:55:39 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 20:54:26 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 21:11:24 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 21:31:40 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 22:08:31 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 22:15:30 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 22:20:52 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 22:30:06 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 23:30:21 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 23:36:14 EgeKorkan has joined #wot 23:54:07 EgeKorkan has joined #wot