14:00:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pmwg
14:00:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/07-pmwg-irc
14:00:41 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:00:42 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Maintenance Working Group
14:00:50 <wendyreid> date: 2025-02-07
14:00:59 <duga> present+
14:01:03 <wendyreid> chair: wendyreid, shiestyle
14:01:15 <wendyreid> present+ wendyreid, MasakazuKitahara, dhall
14:01:27 <shiestyle> present+
14:01:59 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pmwg
14:02:14 <CharlesL> present+
14:02:25 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pmwg
14:03:03 <toshiakikoike> I use Loqui (linux)
14:03:44 <wendyreid> regrets+ George
14:04:31 <duga> scribe+
14:04:35 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel has joined #pmwg
14:04:42 <mgarrish> present+
14:05:07 <duga> wendyreid: Good news - charter passed! No votes against
14:05:09 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:05:25 <duga> ... we are now official, BUT ...
14:05:47 <duga> ... 2 responses included comments
14:06:12 <duga> ... There is a feeling that "Publishing Maintenance Working Group" isn't really correct
14:06:20 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino has joined #pmwg
14:06:20 <ikkwong> ikkwong has joined #pmwg
14:06:29 <gpellegrino> present+
14:07:00 <sueneu> q+
14:07:03 <ikkwong> present+
14:07:05 <wendyreid> ack sueneu
14:07:06 <mgarrish> q+
14:07:08 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:07:11 <duga> ... Do we prefer PMWG or PWG or what?
14:07:25 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
14:07:33 <duga> sueneu: Are we aligned with other groups on our name
14:07:41 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:07:53 <duga> mgarrish: It's a royal pain to switch names, have to change the mailing lists, etc
14:07:59 <dlazin> dlazin has joined #pmwg
14:08:08 <dlazin> present+
14:08:09 <duga> ... How many times, and why?
14:08:14 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
14:08:15 <gpellegrino> +1 to Matt
14:08:32 <duga> AvneeshSingh: I wish Ivan was here, he is better at explaining this
14:09:28 <duga> ... when we discussed with the team, some arguments were legacy of PWG (kind of failed), and why bother (echoing Matt), and 3rd what is the message to the community?
14:09:45 <duga> ... specifically the publishing community, not w3c
14:09:57 <duga> ... Don't want to worry people that we will make huge changes
14:09:58 <ivan> present+
14:10:32 <duga> wendyreid: Context - when we started we were PWG (which struggled), but that did not have epub
14:10:43 <duga> ... then we were epubwg, and it was done
14:10:53 <duga> ... so then we were pmwg
14:11:13 <duga> ... So we are still maintaining but also expanding
14:11:26 <ivan> q+
14:11:35 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:11:40 <duga> ... Other groups tend not to have maintenance
14:12:34 <duga> ivan: I check with Phillipe and we are not required to change the mailing list and identifier, so we can stay PMWG for internal details, but then change our publicly facing name
14:12:47 <duga> ... Not saying we should, just that we are not required to
14:13:19 <duga> wendyreid: Feeling sounds like we keep the name, does anyone disagree?
14:13:39 <duga> ivan: We can have an official resolution and send it on to commenters
14:13:58 <wendyreid> Proposed: The working group will keep the name Publishing Maintenance Working Group
14:14:03 <ivan> +1
14:14:04 <gpellegrino> 0
14:14:04 <dhall> +1
14:14:05 <CharlesL> +1
14:14:05 <dlazin> +1
14:14:06 <sueneu> 1
14:14:06 <duga> +1
14:14:06 <mgarrish> +1
14:14:09 <wendyreid> +1
14:14:09 <gautierchomel> present+
14:14:09 <toshiakikoike> +1
14:14:10 <AvneeshSingh> +1
14:14:10 <Dale> 0
14:14:13 <gautierchomel> +1
14:14:14 <shiestyle> +1
14:14:15 <MasakazuKitahara> +1
14:14:17 <ikkwong> 0
14:14:44 <wendyreid> RESOLVED: The working group will keep the name Publishing Maintenance Working Group
14:15:14 <wendyreid> Topic: Meeting Timing
14:15:38 <ivan> i/wendyreid: Good news - charter passed! No votes against/Topic: Final discussion on WG Naming/
14:16:19 <duga> wendyreid: Poll results - we said Thursday at 9am Eastern
14:16:30 <duga> ... But maybe people didn't consider the time change
14:17:25 <duga> ... Was going to tie it to Japan time so it doesn't change. But that means it will be 10am this summer
14:17:37 <duga> q+
14:17:41 <wendyreid> ack duga
14:17:44 <wendyreid> scribe+
14:18:01 <ivan> q+
14:18:16 <wendyreid> duga: I don't care, but surprised people voted considering the time change, and probably they meant that time slot
14:18:19 <wendyreid> ack iv
14:18:45 <duga> ivan: I believe we are just used to the situation that we are set to Boston time
14:18:59 <duga> ... Which is just the normal 2 week EU/US mess
14:19:19 <duga> ... which is what I had in mind.
14:19:43 <duga> ... But we decided to anchor this group in Japan time, so we are an exception
14:20:24 <duga> wendyreid: If I set this up as Eastern then it changes in Japan
14:20:51 <duga> shiestyle: [Translating for Japan folks]
14:22:28 <duga> ... It is currently 11pm, we could move to midnight (it is acceptable)
14:22:39 <duga> wendyreid: Actually, I think it will be 10pm, not midnight
14:23:12 <duga> ... it will now be Thursday, 9am Boston time, as is standard for w3c
14:23:18 <AvneeshSingh> It would be good for Asia. The qustion is more for Brady, every meeting will be at 6 AM!
14:23:47 <duga> ... Next meeting is Feb 13th
14:23:59 <duga> q+
14:24:07 <wendyreid> ack duga
14:24:17 <ivan> q+
14:24:18 <wendyreid> duga: Next meeting is first meeting?
14:24:23 <wendyreid> wendyreid: Yes
14:24:25 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:24:36 <wendyreid> duga: We have to rejoin?
14:24:44 <duga> Ivan: Yes, there are new deliverables
14:25:12 <duga> ivan: There will be a 45 day grace period, but then you have to rejoin
14:25:39 <duga> ... By Tuesday we will be the new group
14:26:05 <duga> wendyreid: So AC reps have to do their thing (rejoin or approve)
14:26:21 <wendyreid> Topic: Taskforces
14:26:50 <duga> wendyreid: Last meeting we started to discuss TFs, I would like to confirm this week
14:27:12 <duga> ... Laurent isn't here, but he did volunteer last time for Annotations
14:27:28 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
14:27:28 <Zakim> Present: duga, wendyreid, MasakazuKitahara, dhall, shiestyle, CharlesL, mgarrish, AvneeshSingh, gpellegrino, ikkwong, dlazin, ivan, gautierchomel
14:27:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see dlazin, ikkwong, gpellegrino, gautierchomel, mgarrish, CharlesL, RRSAgent, Zakim, duga, MasakazuKitahara, wendyreid, toshiakikoike, Dale, sueneu, AvneeshSingh, dhall,
14:27:30 <Zakim> ... shiestyle, fantasai, plh, tzviya, ivan
14:27:39 <duga> hadrien: I will contact him to verify
14:27:56 <duga> wendyreid: I think you (hadrien) had agreed to comics
14:28:06 <ivan> present+ hadrien
14:28:19 <duga> hadrien: Yes.
14:28:26 <duga> wendyreid: FL is still me
14:28:30 <ivan> pesent+ dale_rogers
14:28:38 <ivan> present+ dale_rogers
14:28:56 <duga> ... Other thing is to have other people lead horizontal review when the time comes
14:29:12 <ivan> present+ toshiakikoike
14:29:19 <tzviya> present+
14:29:25 <duga> ... We have clear people like i13n, a11y, etc
14:29:39 <duga> ... Others are less obvious (e.g. Privacy and Security)
14:30:07 <ivan> q+
14:30:11 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:30:36 <duga> ivan: Just to remind you, if we get late to horizontal review, it creates a problem at the end
14:31:04 <duga> ... We keep banging up against HR, then we can't publish, etc. Painful loop
14:31:50 <duga> ... Better is to start as soon as possible, track all the issues, ping as needed, etc so we have no issues when we want to publish (or no surprises)
14:32:17 <duga> ... You don't have to be a security expert, this is more for making sure the experts are pulled in as needed
14:33:15 <duga> wendyreid: Last review was long because we had never been through the review before, and we want to avoid that this time
14:33:52 <duga> ... Just something to consider if you want to volunteer later, or if you know someone who wants to volunteer
14:34:00 <ivan> i/Other thing is to have other people lead horizontal review /Topic: Horizontal review experts/
14:34:10 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #pmwg
14:34:15 <Hadrien> q+
14:34:21 <wendyreid> ack Hadrien
14:34:41 <duga> Hadrien: we have been working with Brazil a lot on edu recently
14:34:59 <duga> ... they are making epub books available to all students in Brazil
14:35:18 <duga> ... There is an issue with access to the volume (e.g. just chapter 1)
14:35:49 <duga> ... I wonder if this is something we can tackle with what we have in the spec now, or if there is a better group for it
14:36:21 <duga> wendyreid: For the sake of tracking, we should log this. But also, where do we log issues?
14:36:44 <Hadrien> present +
14:36:45 <duga> ... We have PMWG, and we also have EPUBSPECS where the actual doc maintenance happens
14:36:55 <ivan> q+
14:37:01 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:37:07 <duga> ... Maybe it should be PMWG?
14:37:22 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs
14:37:36 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/pm-wg
14:37:41 <duga> ivan: pmwg can be used for whatever we want. Currently that repo is for admin only, but it can be used for whateve we want
14:37:59 <duga> ... Opening a new one doesn't make sense
14:38:16 <duga> ... We also have one for the publishing manifest and one for audiobooks
14:38:36 <duga> wendyreid: Hadrien, can you put an issue in the PMWG repo?
14:39:22 <duga> ... I was thinking PMWG for broad issues, then the individual spec repos for specific items
14:39:24 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:39:28 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
14:39:45 <ivan> Topic: F2F Meeting
14:39:51 <duga> AvneeshSingh: It would be helpful to understand the theme of the first face to face
14:40:06 <duga> ... Just wondering if I should extend to cover those days
14:40:19 <duga> +1
14:40:38 <duga> wendyreid: I will create an issue for the f2f
14:41:06 <duga> ... It will probably be a lot of brainstorming and hashing out the work, maybe starting work on some items
14:41:13 <ivan> -> B.t.w. Meeting practicalities https://github.com/w3c/pm-wg/blob/main/meetings/F2FMeetingFrance2025.md
14:41:21 <ivan> q+
14:41:24 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:41:51 <duga> ivan: We should get some presentations on the big TF issues
14:42:05 <duga> ... So what exactly is annotations now?
14:42:24 <duga> ... The same for webtoons
14:42:50 <duga> ... There are some things in a11y
14:43:12 <duga> ... Then maybe discuss toHTML or not to HTML
14:43:49 <duga> ... I have a page with all the practicalities [see above]
14:44:24 <duga> wendyreid: Anything else?
14:45:52 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #pmwg
14:45:57 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:45:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/07-pmwg-minutes.html ivan
14:46:15 <Dale> Dale has left #pmwg
14:46:27 <ivan> rrsagent, set meeting public
14:46:27 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'set meeting public', ivan.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:46:36 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public