14:02:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:02:08 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-irc
14:02:13 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2
14:02:21 <mahda> mahda has joined #wot-td
14:02:21 <kaz> chair: Ege
14:02:41 <mahda> present+ Mahda_Noura
14:03:16 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
14:03:16 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
14:03:19 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster, Klaus_Harte, Jan_Romann, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:04:06 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:04:21 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#February_6%2C_2025
14:04:27 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:04:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:04:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:04:57 <EgeKorkan> scribenick: EgeKorkan
14:05:03 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
14:05:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:05:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:05:21 <EgeKorkan> topic: Agenda
14:05:54 <EgeKorkan> ek: two minutes review, then coap and binding registry
14:06:04 <EgeKorkan> topic: Minutes Review
14:06:09 <EgeKorkan> https://www.w3.org/2025/01/29-wot-td-minutes.html
14:07:01 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:07:06 <EgeKorkan> ek: Any comments?
14:07:21 <EgeKorkan> ek: minutes of wednesday are approved
14:07:33 <EgeKorkan> https://www.w3.org/2025/01/30-wot-td-minutes.html
14:07:53 <kaz> i|01/29|subtopic: Jan 29|
14:08:04 <kaz> i|01/30|subtopic: Jan 30|
14:08:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:08:26 <EgeKorkan> ek: Any comments?
14:08:36 <EgeKorkan> ek: minutes are approved
14:09:01 <EgeKorkan> topic: Binding Templates
14:09:17 <EgeKorkan> subtopic: merged prs
14:09:17 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
14:09:38 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:09:42 <kaz> s/two minutes/two: minutes/
14:09:55 <cris> q+
14:09:59 <kaz> s/merged prs/Merged PRs/
14:10:27 <EgeKorkan> ek: these are trivial PRs that have been merged
14:10:34 <EgeKorkan> ca: I want to discuss about the PR 395
14:11:07 <EgeKorkan> ... I am not sure why the editorconfig is changed
14:11:12 <EgeKorkan> ... it can be kept to be safer?
14:11:33 <EgeKorkan> kh: in an ideal case, all computers would use the same line ending
14:11:45 <EgeKorkan> ... linux, windows and macos do it differently
14:12:04 <EgeKorkan> ... you can deal with this in different ways, like forcing a specific line endings
14:12:23 <EgeKorkan> ... we had issues in this repo as some editors do not support editorconfig
14:12:35 <EgeKorkan> ... an alternative is to not force anything, just let people use what their OS does
14:12:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:12:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:13:02 <EgeKorkan> ... gitattributes file will do the conversion for you
14:13:22 <EgeKorkan> ... change to your OS in checkout, and in commit convert back
14:14:03 <EgeKorkan> ca: I am familiar with this. Keeping end of line would be safer no?
14:14:10 <kaz> i|I wan to discuss|subtopic: PR 395|
14:14:15 <EgeKorkan> ... less bytes wasted
14:14:37 <kaz> i|I wan to discuss|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/395 PR 395 - Fix line endings|
14:14:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:14:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:14:53 <kaz> s/discuss about/discuss/
14:14:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:14:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:15:42 <EgeKorkan> kh: safer would be to let git handle it
14:15:43 <kaz> q+
14:16:20 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
14:16:29 <kaz> s/linux, windows and macos/Linux, Windows and MacOS/
14:16:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:16:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:16:39 <EgeKorkan> ack c
14:16:48 <EgeKorkan> ca: I cannot remember but there were issues not having
14:17:22 <EgeKorkan> ek: let's see if we notice an issue
14:17:39 <EgeKorkan> ca: the issue will be only locally
14:17:45 <kaz> q?
14:17:48 <EgeKorkan> ek: we can notice that as well
14:18:11 <EgeKorkan> kh: only in makefiles this is an issue
14:18:28 <EgeKorkan> ca: I remember that. Also sometimes in docker
14:18:36 <cris> ack c
14:19:05 <EgeKorkan> kaz: I personally prefer linux but github mechanism is fine
14:19:17 <EgeKorkan> ... it would be have been better to merge it in the call after the explanation
14:19:30 <kaz> s/would be have/would have/
14:19:52 <EgeKorkan> ek: you are right. It is a fundamental change in the end
14:20:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:20:34 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:20:45 <EgeKorkan> ek: I could not find the right label as well, let's add something at least
14:20:51 <EgeKorkan> ek: any further remarks?
14:20:59 <kaz> s/prefer linux/prefer Linux style/
14:21:04 <kaz> s/but github/but GitHub/
14:21:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:21:18 <EgeKorkan> ek: any opinion on the other PRs?
14:21:56 <cris> q+
14:22:06 <EgeKorkan> topic: OPC UA URI Scheme
14:22:12 <EgeKorkan> ek: do we know the decision?
14:22:53 <EgeKorkan> ca: We almost settled the discussion last time. I could not join
14:23:02 <EgeKorkan> ... we should check with daniel and sebastian about it
14:23:37 <EgeKorkan> ek: I don't know the final decision's documentation though
14:23:45 <EgeKorkan> ca: it should be the query parameter
14:23:49 <mjk> q?
14:23:54 <EgeKorkan> ack k
14:23:56 <EgeKorkan> ack c
14:24:09 <EgeKorkan> ca: there was also a small discussion on using nodeid or just id
14:24:54 <EgeKorkan> topic: CoAP Confirmable Requests
14:25:20 <EgeKorkan> jr: klaus made some changes to the PR and they are already approved
14:25:44 <EgeKorkan> ... it is about a hint for the consumer to add an option called confirmable to the requests
14:26:02 <EgeKorkan> ... it is called cov:confirmable, a boolean
14:26:30 <kaz> i|klaus made|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/392 PR 392 - feat: introduce cov:confirmable vocabulary term|
14:26:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:26:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:26:46 <EgeKorkan> ... if you don't use UDP, it is not applicable
14:27:05 <EgeKorkan> ... there can be some further guidance for the TD designer on when to use these terms
14:27:15 <EgeKorkan> ... it can be a follow up PR
14:27:36 <EgeKorkan> ek: anything to add?
14:27:49 <kaz> i|do we know|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2069 Issue 2069 - URL Scheme Decision
14:27:53 <EgeKorkan> kh: everything looks good
14:28:06 <mjk> q?
14:28:07 <EgeKorkan> ... what triggered this change though? Is it fixing the issue?
14:28:18 <EgeKorkan> jr: matthias kovatsch brought up the issue in the WoT Week
14:28:34 <kaz> i|I want to discuss|subtopic: PR 395|
14:28:43 <EgeKorkan> ... knx iot devices were not always turned on.
14:28:47 <kaz> i|I want to discuss|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/395 PR 395 - Fix line endings|
14:28:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:28:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:29:18 <EgeKorkan> ... however, we should probably work more on this. So that we can know when the device is reachable, i.e. understanding the sleep schedule
14:29:42 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:29:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:29:58 <EgeKorkan> ... this way, at least the Consumer is not trying to send confirmable requests
14:30:09 <EgeKorkan> kh: it would be good to continue the discussion
14:30:32 <EgeKorkan> ... and learn more about the background
14:31:22 <EgeKorkan> ... if you know that the device wakes up every 5 mins for 20 seconds. We can put that in the TD, which can apply to other protocols
14:31:47 <EgeKorkan> ... then you need to know in which part of the schedule we are, synchronize and then send the requests precisely
14:32:18 <EgeKorkan> jr: I wanted to check if there are existing solutions and algorithms
14:32:27 <mjk> q+
14:32:42 <EgeKorkan> kh: Have you checked with Matthias?
14:32:55 <EgeKorkan> jr: he was pinged in the issue but maybe I should send an email
14:33:07 <EgeKorkan> mk: I concur with what klaus has said
14:33:38 <EgeKorkan> ... there is a separation of concerns like Klaus said. Maybe there should be an interface for the Consumer to influence this schedule. Retries create network congestion
14:33:47 <kaz> s/klaus has/Klaus has/
14:33:48 <EgeKorkan> ... it is more about the configuration of the server
14:33:58 <EgeKorkan> ... it should be separated from the normal get/put operations
14:34:17 <EgeKorkan> ... most systems won't want you to change it or the system cannot be changed
14:34:46 <mjk> ack mjk
14:34:47 <kaz> q+
14:34:59 <EgeKorkan> kh: this PR is about a specific use case. The TD creator knows it better that the request is confirmable
14:35:24 <EgeKorkan> ... if it makes it better for the people, I don't oppose but we can explore this further
14:36:00 <EgeKorkan> kaz: The direction is ok and fine but it would be nicer to have a more detailed explanation in the specification text
14:36:05 <EgeKorkan> ... like when to use this feature
14:36:07 <JKRhb> q+
14:36:13 <EgeKorkan> ... so I agree with Klaus on that
14:36:14 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/389 Issue - CoAP: Vocabulary for (non-)confirmable messages and retry patterns|
14:36:17 <kaz> q-
14:36:24 <EgeKorkan> jr: I will try to follow up on this PR
14:36:26 <kaz> s/patterns|/patterns/
14:36:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:36:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:36:48 <EgeKorkan> ... as klaus said, it would be valuable to add this to other protocols too
14:37:01 <kaz> s/Issue - Co/related Issue 389 - Co/
14:37:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:37:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:37:18 <kaz> s/klaus/Klaus/
14:37:25 <EgeKorkan> ek: can you create a user story in the use case repo? we can provide the background in that way and motivate the work
14:37:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:37:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:38:36 <EgeKorkan> topic: Binding Registry
14:39:01 <EgeKorkan> ek: I have worked on the PR 378 to make it mergable
14:39:09 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/378
14:39:33 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:39:49 <kaz> s/378/378 PR 378 - Registry Requirements Update/
14:39:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:39:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:40:02 <EgeKorkan> ek: this is a messy PR because it was collecting opinions
14:40:36 <kaz> s/topic: Binding Templates/topic: Binding Templates PRs/
14:40:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:40:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:41:36 <EgeKorkan> ... I have removed the opinions etc. into issues that are linked now
14:42:39 <EgeKorkan> ... this way the PR is mergable and we can continue the discussions in the issues for the specific points
14:43:57 <EgeKorkan> ek: Is it fine for everyone to merge it as is and continue the discussions step by step in the issues and address each issue separately?
14:43:58 <mjk> q?
14:44:03 <JKRhb> ack j
14:44:36 <EgeKorkan> ek: any opinions?
14:46:32 <EgeKorkan> ek: we are fine to merge
14:46:46 <EgeKorkan> ... please comment on the specific issues and we can make PRs as well
14:48:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:48:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:48:47 <kaz> q+
14:48:51 <EgeKorkan> ek: anyone want to bring up a topic for discussion?
14:49:52 <kaz> i|we are fine|(no objections)|
14:49:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:49:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:51:10 <kaz> topic: WoT TD Project Progress Check
14:51:16 <kaz> -> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/80 WoT TD Project
14:51:55 <EgeKorkan> ek: We are getting more issues than we are handling, seen in the unsorted column of the GH project
14:52:06 <EgeKorkan> ... anyone volunteering to take some of the issues here?
14:53:23 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 2068
14:53:43 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2068 TD Issue 2068 - Specify the result of queryaction operation
14:53:51 <kaz> ca: should once close it at the moment
14:54:03 <kaz> ek: we can move it to "Parking"
14:54:06 <kaz> ca: ok
14:54:21 <kaz> i/should once/scribenick: kaz
14:54:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:54:58 <kaz> subtopic: Issue 2066
14:55:09 <EgeKorkan> ek: it is in PR https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2070
14:55:49 <kaz> i|it is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2066 TD Issue 2066 - Typo: approache -> the … approach|
14:55:51 <JKRhb> q+
14:56:00 <kaz> i|it is|ca: any PR?|
14:56:01 <kaz> q-
14:56:20 <EgeKorkan> jr: I have experienced that before. I should have opened an issue before
14:56:22 <kaz> i|it is in PR|scribenick: EgeKorkan|
14:56:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:59:00 <JKRhb> q+
14:59:59 <kaz> q+
15:00:04 <kaz> ack j
15:00:29 <kaz> ek: will check with Daniel about PR 2070
15:01:03 <EgeKorkan> mn: you can assign 2071 to me
15:01:17 <kaz> i|you can|subtopic: PR 2070
15:01:22 <EgeKorkan> ek: we will see each other next week. no cancellations
15:02:11 <kaz> s/PR 2070/Issue 2071/
15:02:46 <kaz> i|assign 20|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2071 TD Issue 2071 - json-ld playground Error thing definition ontology/schema|
15:02:50 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:02:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:03:43 <kaz> i|will check|scribenick: kaz|
15:03:51 <kaz> i|you can a|scribenick: EgeKorkan|
15:03:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:03:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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