14:58:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:58:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wcag2ict-irc
14:58:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:58:05 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:58:07 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:58:07 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:58:16 <maryjom> chair:  Mary Jo Mueller
14:58:21 <PhilDay> present+
14:58:24 <maryjom> meeting:  WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:58:39 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:58:50 <maryjom> Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:58:50 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
14:59:15 <PhilDay> present+
14:59:25 <PhilDay> scribe+ PhilDay
14:59:47 <maryjom> agenda+ Announcements
14:59:56 <maryjom> agenda+ Explainer
15:03:07 <mitch11> mitch11 has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:14 <maryjom> Agenda+ SC analysis kickoff
15:03:25 <PhilDay> zakim, next item
15:03:25 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:03:26 <Sam> Sam has joined #wcag2ict
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15:03:31 <mitch11> present+
15:03:35 <ShawnT> present+
15:03:43 <shadi> shadi has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:50 <shadi> present+
15:04:02 <Sam> Sam has joined #wcag2ict
15:04:07 <Sam> present+
15:04:08 <maryjom> regrets: Loic, Chris, Daniel
15:04:13 <PhilDay> present+
15:04:14 <maryjom> present+
15:04:29 <PhilDay> Mary Jo is out next week.
15:05:08 <PhilDay> We will meet next Thursday - Chris will lead.
15:05:42 <PhilDay> Work statement has been merged into main, there were some last minute tweaks to links and other details.
15:06:28 <PhilDay> Not sure if it is live yet - will check. Work statement will then be publicly available.
15:06:49 <PhilDay> EN 301 549 - there is a new public draft for review.
15:07:00 <shadi> q+
15:07:02 <Sam> q+
15:07:11 <PhilDay> https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/219
15:07:33 <maryjom> q?
15:07:36 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:08:29 <PhilDay> shadi: multiple updates during a few days. Minor updates with references. latest v12 should be stable for 4 weeks while in review. Not all WCAG2ICT aspects have been incorporated yet (e.g. in section 11 on software).
15:09:14 <PhilDay> shadi: If you spot any gaps then post in GitLab - this should be the last public draft. Next one should be end of April - which should be the last update that then gets approved and published.
15:09:45 <PhilDay> ... timing of comments for EN: now set for 6th March (1 month from now).
15:10:10 <maryjom> ack sam
15:10:30 <PhilDay> Sam: Are we as WCAG2ICT going to provide feedback on EN 301 549? Should we?
15:10:42 <mitch11> q+
15:11:06 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:11:24 <Devanshu> Devanshu has joined #wcag2ict
15:11:30 <Devanshu> present+
15:11:49 <PhilDay> mitch11: No official answer on this - but Mitch is happy to trade notes to avoid duplication of effort on this in making comments. Mitch is going to do what he can to give input on outstanding WCAG2ICT issues.
15:12:12 <PhilDay> maryjom: Have been creating spreadsheets in Google Drive -could then use one to track who is reviewing which part of the document.
15:12:49 <PhilDay> ... ITI comments are confidential - so these can't be distributed.
15:13:11 <PhilDay> EN GitLab is publicly viewable so you can search and see if anyone else has already made the comment.
15:13:32 <PhilDay> Suggestion: Add in title WCAG2ICT for any new issues in GitLab to make it easy to find outstanding issues.
15:13:36 <PhilDay> q?
15:13:40 <mitch11> q-
15:14:01 <PhilDay> Sam: Are they taking WCAG2ICT verbatim, or are there modifications?
15:14:46 <PhilDay> shadi: An example 1.4.12 : line height. We provided notes in WCAG2ICT. The essence of these notes was put into a precondition into the EN draft.
15:15:05 <PhilDay> ... EN took notes from WCAG2ICT and made it more explicit.
15:15:24 <PhilDay> shadi: Does need careful review.
15:15:54 <PhilDay> Sam: Could be an overqualification of requirements - if we suggested that these were not globally applicable. Worth reviewing.
15:16:11 <PhilDay> ... WCAG2ICT is not proscriptive, but EN is.
15:16:22 <PhilDay> s/proscriptive/prescriptive
15:16:49 <PhilDay> zakim, next item
15:16:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Explainer -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:16:57 <PhilDay> zakim, take up item 3
15:16:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- SC analysis kickoff -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:17:12 <PhilDay> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRGxHxV0mBEI_rvcc2EXS9xcBanQjG6k/edit?gid=1726579776#gid=1726579776
15:18:08 <PhilDay> [Mary Jo sharing above spreadsheet via Zoom]
15:18:20 <PhilDay> 2 separate analysis spreadsheets.
15:18:29 <PhilDay> SC language changes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRGxHxV0mBEI_rvcc2EXS9xcBanQjG6k/edit?gid=1726579776#gid=1726579776
15:18:44 <PhilDay> Technology-specific notes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uhTMgAMVbYjPV26Ye6ladXTBNe5SVAx2/edit?gid=1590171435#gid=1590171435
15:19:12 <PhilDay> On Technology-specific notes: table at the top is to suggest what we might cover.
15:19:23 <PhilDay> Mobile is an obvious inclusion. Input taken from JJ.
15:20:33 <PhilDay> JJ happy to collaborate
15:21:04 <Sam> q=
15:21:08 <Sam> q+
15:21:24 <PhilDay> Considered other technologies that are covered in the EAA, Section 508 and other standards.
15:21:32 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag2ict
15:21:42 <PhilDay> If you have anything you think should be considered, add to that first table
15:21:52 <bruce_bailey> present+
15:22:18 <PhilDay> q?
15:22:24 <mitch11> q+
15:22:31 <maryjom> ack sam
15:22:57 <PhilDay> Sam: Don't have permission to view document. If anyone else does not have access, then email Daniel to request access.
15:23:18 <PhilDay> ... What is difference between pre-installed software on laptops, and any other software?
15:24:18 <Sam> q-
15:24:25 <PhilDay> Software that you buy & install after purchase of the laptop - is not covered by EAA, whereas software that is already installed at point of purchase of laptop is.
15:24:44 <maryjom> q?
15:24:49 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:25:04 <shadi> q+
15:25:08 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask for spreadsheet URL
15:25:14 <PhilDay> mitch11: Saw somebody had added e-reader, but think we need to also consider ebooks (content) independent of a hardware device.
15:25:50 <PhilDay> Same could be said for media terminals - e.g. content on a smart TV, not the device itself. We mean the software aspects of these devices.
15:26:26 <maryjom> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uhTMgAMVbYjPV26Ye6ladXTBNe5SVAx2/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102514231055078432542&rtpof=true&sd=true
15:27:38 <PhilDay> Direct link may work
15:27:51 <PhilDay> Mary Jo to add to work for the week wiki links
15:28:13 <bruce_bailey> q+ for thanks to having both ebooks and reader
15:28:20 <maryjom> q?
15:28:23 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:28:49 <PhilDay> shadi: we should be careful not to reinvent or step on others toes (e.g. epub).
15:28:52 <ShawnT> I know there was limitation access when you use Microsoft documents like (.docx and .xlsx) on Google Drive.
15:29:23 <bruce_bailey> ePub probably has a mapping document, and if not, we could do one
15:29:47 <mitch11> q+
15:29:56 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
15:29:56 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask for spreadsheet URL and to discuss thanks to having both ebooks and reader
15:29:59 <PhilDay> Need to coordinate with epub team.
15:30:41 <PhilDay> bruce_bailey: Thanks for breaking out ereaders from ebooks. Love that WCAG2ICT that we defer to other groups like epub, but there may be a mapping that we could reference directly.
15:30:48 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:30:55 <PhilDay> ... may also have to repeatedly state software on hardware every time we reference hardware.
15:31:04 <PhilDay> mitch11: Had forgotten epub standard!
15:31:20 <PhilDay> mitch11: EAA could also include PDF and other formats, not just epub
15:31:50 <PhilDay> for ebooks, EAA will not rely on EN 301 549 - there will be a separate specification coming from the Commission.
15:32:20 <PhilDay> Could de-prioritise ebooks if it is covered elsewhere
15:32:58 <bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub3/
15:33:01 <PhilDay> Mary Jo to put out survey so we can vote on priorities
15:33:37 <bruce_bailey> and https://www.w3.org/publishing/ which redirects to https://www.w3.org/ecosystems/publishing/
15:34:18 <bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/epub/
15:34:23 <PhilDay> Have a separate spreadsheet for the SC language changes
15:34:34 <maryjom> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cRGxHxV0mBEI_rvcc2EXS9xcBanQjG6k/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=102514231055078432542&rtpof=true&sd=true
15:35:38 <PhilDay> Look at any SCs where we might want to replace existing language. E.g. consistent identification. Any that might benefit from suggesting language tweaks that better suit for non-web technology
15:35:52 <maryjom> q?
15:36:10 <PhilDay> Email has been sent to entire task force asking for input.
15:36:51 <PhilDay> Also want a separate focused meeting to work through the detail of these analyses.
15:37:13 <PhilDay> Those who would like to meet, reply to email giving availability.
15:38:53 <PhilDay> Mary Jo looked at changes in WCAG 2.2 in the December publication, now in the process of looking at what has changed, then editors to look & see if any of that language needs to be updated in WCAG2ICT.
15:39:09 <PhilDay> ... Final step would then be to make a pull request with all these changes for all to review.
15:39:23 <PhilDay> zakim, take up item 2
15:39:23 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Explainer -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:40:12 <PhilDay> Explainer: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hyei09Viby1bCoZnDLYwY9VWpzRvteK9pqt4v9sWCJE/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.wlcptmhola14
15:40:54 <PhilDay> We are still working on the content in this.
15:41:39 <PhilDay> Introduction has been worked on. Instructions that will disappear are highlighted in blue
15:41:49 <PhilDay> Some draft content in intro
15:42:04 <PhilDay> Who develops & background & dev history still to be worked on
15:42:16 <PhilDay> Goals: not sure if we need it - the intro may contain this
15:43:44 <PhilDay> Who WCAG2ICT for - nice approach.
15:44:31 <PhilDay> What WCAG2ICT does not do - several bullets added. Please review.
15:45:48 <PhilDay> Question. Should we add EN standards from other regions? e.g. Canada, India, Kenya, Japan?
15:46:09 <PhilDay> q+
15:46:47 <mitch11> q+
15:46:56 <maryjom> ack PhilDay
15:47:59 <shadi> q+
15:48:02 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:48:32 <PhilDay> PhilDay: Not sure why we add Canadian ATM standards, and not other ATM standards from other countries.
15:49:01 <PhilDay> mitch11: Good point - instead of just saying informative references - give some preamble to state that these are documents that we used / referenced in the writing of this.
15:49:06 <Sam> q+
15:49:18 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/policies/
15:49:27 <PhilDay> mitch11: What is the latest on WAI laws & policies. Should be added as a reference.
15:49:28 <Sam> how about EN 301 549, S508 and others
15:49:45 <PhilDay> ... WAI may be out of date.
15:50:34 <mitch11> q-
15:50:46 <PhilDay> q?
15:51:09 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:51:51 <mitch11> q+
15:51:53 <PhilDay> shadi: Difficult to maintain list of policies, but also difficult to maintain this list of informative references. So maybe don't include here in a separate list, and have it added to WAI.
15:51:57 <maryjom> ack sam
15:51:58 <mitch11> q-
15:52:07 <maryjom> q?
15:52:37 <PhilDay> Sam: Seems it will always be problematic to list them all - just list the 2-3 most popular then say others...
15:53:06 <mitch11> q+
15:53:13 <ShawnT> q+
15:53:36 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:54:30 <PhilDay> mitch11: Like the idea of adding to WAI and linking to that, if we have the permissions suitable to allow changes & additions.
15:54:49 <PhilDay> Mary Jo to follow up with W3C staff
15:54:54 <shadi> q+
15:54:57 <ShawnT> q-
15:55:18 <maryjom> ack shadi
15:55:19 <PhilDay> mitch11: If the answer is maintain/improve - that is good. If not, think we need to add a few references in our document.
15:55:54 <PhilDay> shadi: My understanding that there is a staff person who keeps documents up to date - so expect they will be happy with us giving input & suggestions.
15:58:13 <bruce_bailey> Apologies, I have to drop to set up wcag3 subgroup call.
15:58:40 <PhilDay> Work is moving slowly. If you can help with any of the sections in the Explainer, that would be greatly appreciated.
15:59:30 <PhilDay> Have a good amount of work ahead of us on the analyses and explainer doc
15:59:54 <mitch11> PhilDay do you have a minute to stay on?
16:00:20 <PhilDay> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay
16:01:54 <PhilDay> bye
16:02:09 <PhilDay> zakim, bye
16:02:09 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been PhilDay, mitch, ShawnT, shadi, Sam, maryjom, Devanshu, bruce_bailey
16:02:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
16:04:32 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
16:04:32 <RRSAgent> I see no action items