` should be allowed 18:09:00 q+ 18:09:12 ...I'm interested in looking at this as I helped with this language 18:09:22 jamesn: Let's agenda this, more discussion is needed 18:09:29 ack me 18:10:04 present+ 18:11:03 jcraig: For aria #2422, came out of a bug that Amazon recently fixed (presence of `aria-modal` caused some browser/AT combinations to not move focus to it). Causes some AT to get locked. There are already heuristics that exist in spec. e.,g `aria-hidden` on `` is ignored 18:11:39 ...I'm curious if there are ways to list these in the spec; also, perhaps call them out (e.g., via ReSpec) and maybe aggregate them somewhere in the spec 18:11:54 zakim, next item 18:11:54 agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created%3A%3E%3D2025-01-30+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria&type=Issues -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:12:05 siri has joined #aria 18:12:44 spectranaut_: On aria PR #2425, Peter wanted to review this? (not on the call today) 18:12:59 jcraig: I can take a look 18:13:50 spectranaut_: Any objections to aria PR #2421? (Merged.) 18:14:23 jamesn: I will take a look at aria PR #2420 18:14:28 zakim, next item 18:14:28 agendum 3 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:15:35 jcraig: Would be great to have reviewers for WPT PR #50507. It was previously approved and there was one change that I made where I commented what the change was; only the last test changed to DFS (depth first search) 18:16:06 scott: I want to be added to this as well 18:17:11 jcraig: Hopefully this will unblock some engines, and then the (nameFrom: heading) PR can be merged 18:17:14 zakim, next item 18:17:14 agendum 4 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:17:45 spectranaut_: No deepdives planned 18:17:48 zakim, next item 18:17:48 agendum 4 was just opened, Rahim 18:17:57 zakim, close this item 18:17:57 agendum 4 closed 18:17:58 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:17:58 5. RFC to move DPUB-ARIA and DPUB-AAM to proposed recommendation [from agendabot] 18:18:35 spectranaut_: If you have any objections, you can object now (via email). Just making sure that everyone is aware 18:18:47 jamesn: Did everyone see the CFC? I sent it to the mailing list 18:18:59 jamesn: ...there haven't been any positive/negative responses (which is fine) 18:19:24 spectranaut_: For newer folks, CFC is a "call for consensus" and how we formally make decisions. Most of the time, consensus is tracked in Github 18:20:03 jamesn: Transition documents (like taking control of documents). It says that "silence is consent" for the decision but if you don't object, but if you feel the need to reply feel free 18:20:05 zakim, next item 18:20:05 agendum 5 -- RFC to move DPUB-ARIA and DPUB-AAM to proposed recommendation -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:20:21 zakim, close this item 18:20:21 agendum 5 closed 18:20:22 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:20:22 6. -> Update text node definition https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2274 [from agendabot] 18:20:29 zakim, next item 18:20:29 agendum 6 -- -> Update text node definition https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2274 -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:21:37 Rahim: Is this OK to merge? 18:23:13 Rahim: See related PR about updating ARIA readme for ReSpec aliasing 18:23:16 zakim, next item 18:23:16 agendum 7 -- -> Add normative text on calculating aria-level, aria-posinset, and aria-setsize https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2104 -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:24:23 pkra: I wanted to check the status of this (can't recall why I agenda'd this). It was an old PR and was going through the ones I was assigned to review, and I left comments 18:24:51 spectranaut_: It looks like it needs browser implementations (or to confirm browser implementations)? 18:25:02 pkra: We can skip it due to Sarah's absence 18:25:29 jcraig: If I recall, it shouldn't be changed until there is a way to test the change (`aria-level` is not testable) 18:25:38 ...only role/label are testable currently (with WPT) 18:26:26 ...it's a broad enough scope change without testability (to fix a problem due to inability to test) would be a bad step forward 18:27:06 Matt: Is it possible to add a comment to this PR, something that would help us to know when to bring this back up? Is there some way that we can not lose track of it 18:27:23 pkra: I put on the agenda for editors 18:27:33 Matt: Is there a timeline for when we'll have more testable attributes? 18:27:52 spectranaut_: No timeline but discussed in a11y interop group 18:28:06 siri has joined #aria 18:28:17 jcraig: Jamie Teh has made progress on more robust testing in Gecko 18:28:55 pkra: This isn't technically a big change, it says that user agents MUST do this 18:29:06 jcraig: You're right, the spec says this; my concern is verbosity 18:29:40 Matt: The spec is inconsistent; it requires it for certain roles like `article` but not other roles and in other cases, there is no normative language 18:30:05 jcraig: Because `aria-level` is used for `heading`, there isn't a way to do role-specific mapping in a way that this spec change requires 18:30:48 ...I'll comment in the issue or we can discuss further now 18:31:19 spectranaut_: If you want to continue discussing this, that's a different issue than this PR? (Peter K. confirms) 18:31:58 jcraig: Isn't this adding normative text for computing `aria-level`? This attribute has overlap with headings so can't reliably map IDL (due to role-specific determination) 18:32:51 q+ 18:33:14 ...when `aria-level` is not defined (e.g., `

`) for example; the issue is that the problem is ATs didn't assume author intent. Jumping to `aria-level="2"` might not be what author intended. The current VoiceOver behavior is less verbose and doesn't misrepresent something the author didn't intend 18:33:17 ack jamesn 18:33:19 q+ 18:33:53 jamesn: I'm certain that heading level "2" was determined if it wasn't specified (and moved to the "Fallback" section in ARIA section). See ARIA 1.1 18:34:25 ack pkra 18:34:30 jcraig: Thanks for pointing out it was in ARIA 1.1. I still have a concern 18:35:02 pkra: This is one of the reasons I responded (to James C.'s comment), and added a note in the PR to comment on how other screen readers (e.g., JAWS, NVDA, ORCA) and how they behave 18:35:15 ...this discussion wasn't supposed to touch on headings 18:35:28 ..if it's not in the PR, we should discuss that 18:35:29 q+ 18:35:41 ack jcraig 18:38:47 jcraig: I wanted to ask Rahim if there was a way to do this in IDL (specify heading level when the attribute is absent)? 18:39:43 Rahim: not that I'm aware of due to the current IDL attribute type for `aria-level` being `nullable DOMString?`. Would require a change in the IDL type (or introducing a new attribute ala `classList`/`className`) 18:39:54 jongund has joined #aria 18:39:57 zakim, next item 18:39:57 agendum 8 -- -> Ambiguous but normative requirement about hidden nodes is hidden by default in AccName https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/211 -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:41:01 Rahim: Can this issue be closed? 18:41:05 spectranaut_: Feel free to close it 18:41:26 zakim, next item 18:41:26 agendum 9 -- -> [AriaNotify] Scope proposal for V1 of API https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2426 -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:42:10 StefanS has joined #aria 18:42:30 spectranaut_: People can take a look if they're interested, will be discussed in a future meeting 18:43:52 rrsagent, make minutes 18:43:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-aria-minutes.html Rahim 18:55:52 s/it's a broad enough scope change without testability (to fix a problem due to inability to test) would be a bad step forward/it's a broad enough scope change without testability (to fix a problem due to inability to test) would be a bad step forward [Update: retracted later in the call; was referring to another tangentially related issue.]/ 18:57:09 s/was referring to another tangentially related issue/I was referring to another issue related to level, setsize, and posinset/ 20:28:13 rrsagent, make minutes 20:28:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-aria-minutes.html Rahim 20:41:36 zakim, end meeting 20:41:36 As of this point the attendees have been Summer, Rahim, Adam_Page, katez, giacomo-petri, filippo-zorzi, StefanS, jcraig, pkra, scott, smockle 20:41:38 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 20:41:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/06-aria-minutes.html Zakim 20:41:44 I am happy to have been of service, spectranaut_; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 20:41:45 Zakim has left #aria 20:45:21 jongund has joined #aria 21:11:39 jongund has joined #aria 21:56:47 jongund has joined #aria 22:14:05 jongund has joined #aria