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10:16:21 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
10:16:22 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
10:16:50 <janina> Meeting: Accessibility at the Edge (A11yEdge) Community Group Teleconference
10:16:57 <janina> date: 05 Feb 2025
10:17:03 <janina> Chair: Janina
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19:38:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
19:38:44 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
19:38:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
19:39:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> Meeting: Accessibility at the Edge CG Weekly Teleconference for 5 February
19:39:12 <janina> agenda+ Sec 2.4: PDF https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#pdf
19:39:12 <janina> agenda+ Sec 3.2.2: Provide Dyslexia Friendly Fonts  https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#dyslexiafont
19:39:15 <janina> agenda+ Sec 3.2.3: Accessible Pricing https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#pricing
19:39:18 <janina> agenda+ Sec 3.4: Color https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#color
19:39:20 <janina> agenda+ Sec 3.5: Page Styling  https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#pagestyling
19:39:23 <janina> agenda+ Sec 4.2: Custom Components https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#custcomponent
19:39:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
19:39:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Sec 2.4: PDF https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#pdf -- taken up [from janina]
19:39:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
19:39:41 <janina>  present+
19:39:43 <janina> scribe+
19:39:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+ Jason
19:39:45 <shaun> present+
19:39:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+ Chris
19:43:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: remove ' incorrect reading order' from the automatability section.
19:45:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... may want to remove the reference to why we are doing this (... people with assistive tech)
19:45:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> Chris: There should be a way to make short reference to this as it recurs
19:46:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
19:46:12 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Sec 3.2.2: Provide Dyslexia Friendly Fonts  https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#dyslexiafont -- taken up [from janina]
19:47:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: For the list on increased height etc, preface it by saying 'for example'
19:49:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... benefit is too assertive. It needs to be lightened, e.g., add 'for many users'
19:49:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Using dyslexia-friendly fonts can reduce cognitive load for some people with dyslexia
19:49:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... delete ', prioritizing aesthetics over readability.'
19:51:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... change 'However, full integration with existing styles and design systems requires manual adjustments.' to 'However, invocation requires manual adjustment or decision-making.'
19:52:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> shaun: The automatability sections are standardized now with m-dash
19:52:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1
19:52:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
19:52:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Sec 3.2.3: Accessible Pricing https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#pricing -- taken up [from janina]
19:57:20 <shaun> "About Automatability - In many cases — Suggesting that automation can successfully remediate and verify outcomes across a broad set of websites.
19:57:20 <shaun> In some cases — Pointing to potential success in specific implementations where the variables, website structures and code are well-understood and controlled.
19:57:20 <shaun> In no significant way — Indicating scenarios where current automation strategies are unlikely to be effective without significant human oversight.
19:57:20 <shaun> Does Not Apply—Is sometimes indicated for completeness.
19:58:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> Jason: The source heading is a place to discuss why source sometimes is not sufficient.
19:58:43 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... or point to the habits of source that end up demanding post-source adaptation
19:59:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... it is not just a statement of why source is the best place for everything. That is front-loaded and clear, that source is a good place to get it done
20:00:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Janina, note -- add this explanatory note to the introduction on the source, trade-offs overview
20:00:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... 1.4 in the intro
20:00:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
20:00:32 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Sec 3.4: Color https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#color -- taken up [from janina]
20:02:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I will merge this 3.4 for reading next week.
20:02:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
20:02:19 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
20:02:20 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:02:20 <Zakim> 5. Sec 3.5: Page Styling  https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#pagestyling [from janina]
20:02:33 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, open item 4
20:02:33 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Sec 3.4: Color https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#color -- taken up [from janina]
20:03:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Colors are inherently adjustable via CSS, so color palettes could be determined by end users.
20:05:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Lionel review section 3.4 for accuracy by next week
20:06:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
20:06:00 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Sec 3.5: Page Styling  https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#pagestyling -- taken up [from janina]
20:07:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: The headings need 'blabla' under each one, I will supply
20:09:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> Jason: 3.5.2, source does not show how it can get it wrong
20:09:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... add, the concern for the source design may override the need for distinguishable text boxes and borders
20:11:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Talking about blabla-- we plan a pass to link to WCAG, which will have comprehensive blabla
20:12:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: on the source of shadow fonts, add something like the above:
20:13:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... .. the source's design may override the need for shadow and other effects that are distinguishable by people of all abilities
20:14:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: 3.5.4 add to source, 'such effects generally violate WCAG color contrast minimums.
20:15:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
20:15:59 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Sec 4.2: Custom Components https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/#custcomponent -- taken up [from janina]
20:18:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> Shaun: Which is tradeoff? Is it TradeOffs, Trade-offs, or Trade Offs?
20:18:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Decision: Trade-Off as it is title case
20:20:48 <shaun> Claude confirms Trade-Offs when used as a title.
20:29:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: The W3C community divides components into two types: standard components and non-standard components
20:30:15 <shaun> Apologies, I have to go pick up my daughter.
20:31:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel: This is a list from my work: Tab panels, accordions, menu bars, tree widget, combo box, list box, multi-select list box, alert dialog, alerts, carousel sliders
20:32:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> jason: This non-standard list is the type of component we are dealing with in this section
20:32:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... I know the term 'interactive components'
20:34:02 <janina> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/custom-controls/
20:34:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Standard components are Anchors, buttons, form fields
20:34:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: WAI calls it custom controls
20:35:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Not sure a control is a component
20:38:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> jason: For 4.2.2, delete the first source/trade-offs/benefits/auto section, keep the second.
20:38:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
20:38:59 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, Lionel_Wolberger
20:39:58 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: Third Party Risk
20:40:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> Chris: Are some post-source remediations done by a third party?
20:40:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Yes
20:42:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> Chris: Law firms are overt about the caliber of any third parties, particularly from the standpoint of security\
20:42:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... 3rd parties bring in supply chain type issues
20:43:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... for a 3rd party to enter, implies that new risks could be introduced
20:46:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... justt like food provenance, the document should address the provenance and risk issues that come from having multiple 3rd parties mash-up into a single page
20:49:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, end meeting
20:49:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Lionel_Wolberger, janina, Jason, shaun, Chris
20:49:57 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:49:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/05-a11yedge-minutes.html Zakim
20:50:06 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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