15:01:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
15:02:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-lws-irc
15:02:05 <hadrian> hadrian has joined #lws
15:02:14 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250203T100000/
15:02:14 <agendabot> TallTed, sorry, I did not recognize any agenda in https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250203T100000/
15:03:31 <acoburn> Agenda from last week: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250127T100000/#agenda
15:04:18 <eBremer> scribe: eBremer
15:04:30 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
15:04:34 <TallTed> agenda+ Introductions and announcements
15:04:34 <TallTed> agenda+ Pending action items https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:04:34 <TallTed> agenda+ Use cases update
15:04:34 <TallTed> agenda+ Consensus on shared context issues https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues
15:04:36 <eBremer> present+
15:04:54 <TallTed> clear agenda
15:05:11 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:05:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:05:16 <hadrian> present+
15:05:16 <TallTed> agenda+ Introductions and announcements
15:05:16 <TallTed> agenda+ Pending action items https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:05:16 <TallTed> agenda+ Use cases update
15:05:17 <TallTed> agenda+ Consensus on shared context issues https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues
15:05:42 <rui> rui has joined #lws
15:05:43 <csarven> present+
15:05:50 <TallTed> present+
15:05:56 <acoburn> present+
15:06:17 <AZ> AZ has joined #lws
15:06:22 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
15:06:24 <AZ> present+
15:06:25 <ryey> present+
15:06:33 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/01/27-lws-minutes.html
15:06:33 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/02/10-lws-minutes.html
15:06:45 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:06:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:07:12 <ericP> present+
15:08:24 <jeswr> jeswr has joined #lws
15:08:26 <eBremer> ericP: any new people here today?
15:08:41 <eBremer> ... no new people.  any announcements?
15:08:54 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 1
15:08:54 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions and announcements -- taken up [from TallTed]
15:09:24 <eBremer> ... do you still own action item 13?
15:09:40 <eBremer> s/do you still/Hadrian, do you still/
15:10:04 <eBremer> ... i did it yesterday...Sarvin commented on it...
15:10:17 <eBremer> s/Sarvin/Sarven/
15:10:42 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendaum
15:10:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next agendaum', TallTed
15:10:46 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
15:10:46 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Pending action items https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction -- taken up [from TallTed]
15:11:08 <eBremer> hadrian: will stay open for a month or two
15:11:20 <eBremer> ... but what we know needs to be done is done already
15:11:44 <eBremer> ericP: next agenda...the template...
15:12:11 <eBremer> hadrian: add requirements as issues in the github repository
15:13:21 <eBremer> ... we can make changes directly to the directly as opposed to issues...
15:15:30 <eBremer> csarven: PR 119...how useful this is right now
15:15:58 <ericP> queue?
15:16:08 <eBremer> ... what we agree was a template on how the requirements were expressed...
15:16:58 <eBremer> ... we were trying out how to figure out how to express the requirements based on the use cases...
15:17:15 <TallTed> i|add requirements as issues |subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/pull/119
15:17:26 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:17:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:17:42 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:18:33 <ericP> q+ to say that acceptance of a UC in the document is not acceptance of its requirements
15:19:40 <acoburn> chair: ericP
15:20:38 <TallTed> q+
15:21:01 <eBremer> ... we should focus on the generating the requirement from the use cases
15:21:12 <eBremer> s/generating the requirement/generating the requirements/
15:24:01 <ericP> ack next
15:24:02 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say that acceptance of a UC in the document is not acceptance of its requirements
15:24:17 <eBremer> TallTed: this is not a non-normative document
15:24:20 <ericP> ack next
15:24:27 <eBremer> ... its not a spec doc and not referred to as such
15:24:48 <eBremer> ... the use cases are what we derive requirements from
15:25:15 <eBremer> ... harnessing the use case (at least some of them) to determine what the requirements are
15:25:37 <eBremer> ... and put into the requirements such that they will not prevent a use case
15:28:33 <hadrian> q+
15:29:15 <eBremer> ericP: I propose csarven provide an alternate PR
15:29:35 <eBremer> hadrian: I think Sarven has a problem with the language
15:30:44 <TallTed> q+
15:32:01 <hadrian> ack next
15:32:44 <eBremer> TallTed: I agree with the generality of what you are saying Sarven...
15:33:18 <eBremer> ... I think things can go faster if you put together a boilerplate template...I believe you have done things like this before...
15:35:57 <eBremer> csarven: I dont have the time to own this
15:36:49 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
15:36:49 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, TallTed
15:36:57 <TallTed> q?
15:37:00 <TallTed> q-
15:37:00 <acoburn> ack next
15:37:05 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
15:37:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Use cases update -- taken up [from TallTed]
15:37:23 <eBremer> hadrian: I selected only four issues for discussion...
15:37:24 <TallTed> Zakim, close item 3
15:37:24 <Zakim> agendum 3, Use cases update, closed
15:37:25 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:37:25 <Zakim> 4. Consensus on shared context issues https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues [from TallTed]
15:37:30 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 4
15:37:30 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Consensus on shared context issues https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues -- taken up [from TallTed]
15:39:01 <eBremer> acoburn: there are alot of use cases at this point (over a hundred)
15:39:12 <eBremer> ... share a certain number of assumptions...
15:39:49 <eBremer> ... assemble a set of those into context issues linked to the individual use cases...so we dont have to restate 15 different assumptions..
15:40:09 <eBremer> ericP: is there a process by which we establish consensus?
15:40:53 <eBremer> acoburn: ...people would ask questions...there hasnt been alot...today is about sussing that out
15:41:12 <acoburn> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/117 Shared Context issue
15:41:13 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/117 -> Issue 117 Basic Storage Context (by hzbarcea) [needs-discussion]
15:41:43 <hadrian> q+
15:42:05 <eBremer> acoburn: this one is related to storage
15:42:14 <acoburn> ack next
15:42:15 <csarven> s/I dont have the time to own this/I can review and provide guidance on the UCR but I dont have the time to own this. I've already reviewed the PR and linked to existing work for reference. Perhaps we need additional editors or authors. Additionally, ask the group to provide more reviews to the PR. We need to agree on the distinction between the language used for the conformance statement or clauses language that would go into a specification and from
15:42:15 <csarven> the language used for functional or non-functional requirements go into a UCR.
15:43:10 <csarven> q+
15:43:30 <eBremer> ericP: we have an approach to factoring the issues and the requirements....
15:43:46 <eBremer> ... and we have a question of how they are worded...
15:44:00 <eBremer> ... and whether we intend to meet those implicit requirements...
15:44:15 <eBremer> ... Hadrian, does that capture the set of meta issues?
15:45:25 <hadrian> q+
15:45:32 <hadrian> ack next
15:46:28 <eBremer> csarven: #115 is a bit too specific (as an example)
15:46:29 <gb> Issue 115 not found
15:46:52 <ericP> q+ to summarize
15:47:24 <hadrian> q-
15:47:35 <ericP> ack
15:47:40 <ericP> ack next
15:47:41 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to summarize
15:48:11 <eBremer> ericP: as I understand the purpose of the PR is to factor out the commonalities so the same text isnt repeated over and over...
15:48:46 <eBremer> ... I understand, that when we require some documentation of what they mean...
15:49:02 <eBremer> ... combination of factoring a use case summary and a glossary...
15:49:13 <eBremer> hadrian: that is correct it was stated a few times that way
15:51:49 <hadrian> The glossary ultimately MUST exist in the document itself
15:53:55 <eBremer> ericP: would you (Sarven) be content to have the back links in the final document connecting to all of the sources of the glossary
15:54:27 <hadrian> q+
15:55:45 <ericP> ack next
15:55:48 <hadrian> ack next
15:56:27 <eBremer> ericP: I am going to ask others to review the PR...
15:56:47 <eBremer> ... look at the issue 117 which provides some of this factoring...
15:56:59 <eBremer> ... and 119 which provides a template using these...
15:57:17 <eBremer> hadrian: I propose for me to work on the glossary for next week
15:57:42 <eBremer> ... that may make it easier to maybe agree on the terms....
15:57:49 <eBremer> ericP: if people can help out by looking at that for next week
15:57:57 <eBremer> ericP: any other business?
15:58:05 <eBremer> ... two minutes....we are closed...
15:58:41 <hadrian> action: hadrian to create a PR for the document to create a glossary
15:58:50 <gb> Created -> action #14 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/14
15:59:07 <ericP> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:59:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-lws-minutes.html ericP
16:23:36 <TallTed> Zakim, bye
16:23:36 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been pchampin, acoburn, laurens, eBremer, AZ, csarven, thelounge, TallTed, hadrian, bendm, ryey, uvdsl, ericP
16:23:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lws
16:23:40 <TallTed> RRSAgent, bye
16:23:40 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-lws-actions.rdf :
16:23:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hadrian to create a PR for the document to create a glossary [1]
16:23:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/02/03-lws-irc#T15-58-41