IRC log of webmachinelearning on 2025-01-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:58:06 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/30-webmachinelearning-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:58:11 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), anssik
14:58:28 [anssik]
Meeting: WebML WG Teleconference – 30 January 2025
14:58:32 [anssik]
Chair: Anssi
14:58:47 [anssik]
Agenda: https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/blob/main/telcons/2025-01-30-wg-agenda.md
14:58:49 [anssik]
Scribe: Anssi
14:59:01 [dwayner]
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scribeNick: anssik
14:59:10 [anssik]
gb, this is webmachinelearning/webnn
14:59:10 [gb]
anssik, OK.
14:59:20 [anssik]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
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14:59:29 [anssik]
Present+ Etienne_Noel
14:59:39 [anssik]
Present+ Joshua_Bell
14:59:43 [anssik]
Present+ Michael_McCool
15:00:21 [anssik]
Present+ Bryan_Bernhart
15:00:56 [anssik]
Present+ Christian_Liebel
15:01:19 [anssik]
Present+ Tarek_Ziade
15:01:35 [anssik]
Present+ Zoltan_Kis
15:01:45 [RafaelCintron]
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Present+ Rafael_Cintron
15:02:21 [anssik]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/30-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik
15:02:39 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
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o/
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15:04:13 [anssik]
Present+ Joshua_Lochner
15:04:29 [anssik]
Present+ Ayu
15:05:06 [anssik]
Present+ Dom
15:05:16 [anssik]
anssik: Happy Lunar New Year to our participants using lunar calendars!
15:05:22 [anssik]
... our PRC participants are taking time off to celebrate during this period
15:05:57 [anssik]
.... welcome to Tarek Ziade from Mozilla, Mike Wasserman and Christine Hollingsworth from Google to the WebML WG
15:06:25 [anssik]
... also welcome to Stalgia Grigg from Bocoup and Mingyu Lei from Google, Yuichiro Tachibana from Hugging Face, Sushanth Rajasankar from Microsoft, Tarek Ziade from Mozilla joining the WebML CG!
15:07:15 [anssik]
Tarek: I work in ML AI team at Mozilla that integrates inference features into Firefox desktop
15:07:49 [anssik]
... my team working to integrate Transformers.js into the browser extension, first use case PDF.js with alt text generation for images
15:08:33 [anssik]
... running locally via ONNX Runtime, recently wrapped that API into a new trial API for Web Extensions, doing similar things such as Transformers.js with its pipeline API
15:08:58 [anssik]
... with Web Extensions API we do in addition caching, run inference in a separate process
15:09:21 [anssik]
... very interested in this group, learn about what is happening, hope to see everything converging to cool new stuff for web developer!
15:10:01 [anssik]
Topic: W3C Breakouts Day 2025
15:10:12 [anssik]
anssik: there's a call for breakout session proposals for W3C Breakouts Day 2025 on 26 March 2025
15:10:32 [anssik]
... the goal of the day is to foster discussion among the full W3C community about new or existing topics
15:10:42 [anssik]
... this is an opportunity to reach out to folks outside our WebML community
15:10:53 [anssik]
... breakout format is quite relaxed, can be e.g. a presentation and/or discussion
15:10:56 [anssik]
... duration max 1 hour
15:11:03 [anssik]
... deadline for breakout proposals 12 March
15:11:09 [anssik]
... no registration, anyone with a W3C account eligible, non-Members too
15:11:14 [anssik]
... proposals are submitted via new GH issues:
15:11:18 [anssik]
-> Propose a new breakout session https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2025/issues/new?assignees=&labels=session&projects=&template=session.yml
15:11:26 [anssik]
anssik: instruction linked from the issue template
15:11:34 [anssik]
anssik: you can check the earlier breakouts for inspiration:
15:11:38 [anssik]
-> 2024 breakout proposals https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/
15:11:42 [anssik]
-> 2023 breakout proposals https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/
15:11:45 [anssik]
anssik: more information available on GH:
15:11:49 [anssik]
-> W3C Breakouts Day 2025 https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2025/
15:11:59 [anssik]
anssik: please let me know if you'd be interested in suggesting a breakout session and I can help get it in
15:12:07 [anssik]
... one possible topic could be to present and discuss the new Community Group incubations
15:13:10 [anssik]
Topic: Device selection
15:13:23 [anssik]
anssik: PR #809 specifies the Proposed Minimum Viable Solution per device-selection-explainer.md
15:13:24 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/pull/809 -> Pull Request 809 Remove MLDeviceType (by zolkis) [device selection]
15:13:28 [anssik]
... and closes issues #749 and #302
15:13:28 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/302 -> Issue 302 API simplification: context types, context options, createContext() (by zolkis) [v2] [device selection]
15:13:29 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/749 -> Issue 749 MLContextOptions.deviceType seems unnecessary outside of conformance testing (by mwyrzykowski) [device selection]
15:13:35 [anssik]
-> device-selection-explainer.md https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/blob/main/device-selection-explainer.md
15:13:45 [anssik]
anssik: thank you Zoltan for the PR and Josh for review comments!
15:13:55 [anssik]
... summary of changes:
15:14:00 [anssik]
... - Remove MLDeviceType as explicit context option
15:14:06 [anssik]
... - Update MLContext so that it becomes device agnostic
15:14:17 [anssik]
... - Add algorithmic steps or notes to implementations on how to map power preference to devices
15:14:25 [anssik]
... the following changes documented in the explainer is not in this PR:
15:14:33 [anssik]
... - Also, to align with GPUPowerPreference, we should remove the "default" MLPowerPreference, i.e. the lack of hints will result in creating a generic context.
15:14:46 [anssik]
... In addition, privacy considerations have been updated, reducing fingerprintable surface further
15:14:51 [anssik]
... the corresponding IDL change is the following:
15:14:58 [anssik]
-enum MLDeviceType {
15:14:59 [anssik]
- "cpu",
15:14:59 [anssik]
- "gpu",
15:14:59 [anssik]
- "npu"
15:14:59 [anssik]
-};
15:14:59 [anssik]
15:14:59 [anssik]
dictionary MLContextOptions {
15:14:59 [anssik]
- MLDeviceType deviceType = "cpu";
15:14:59 [anssik]
MLPowerPreference powerPreference = "default";
15:14:59 [anssik]
};
15:15:16 [anssik]
anssik: PR invites further review, I expect we are able to merge this soonish
15:15:47 [anssik]
Zoltan: didn't remove "default" because strictly speaking not part of this minimal change
15:16:06 [anssik]
... discussion on the explainer suggests we could keep it this way for now
15:16:27 [anssik]
... Josh brought up a point the context creation needs some work, should we include it here or let it be another PR?
15:17:26 [anssik]
anssik: editor can decide on how to go about that
15:17:30 [anssik]
Zoltan: PTAL everyone
15:17:38 [anssik]
Dwayne: I will look at it today
15:17:41 [anssik]
q?
15:17:50 [anssik]
ack dom
15:18:22 [anssik]
Dom: should the explainer we reviewed by TAG and/or Privacy WG?
15:19:13 [anssik]
anssik: proposal to do that review in context of the next CRS
15:20:15 [anssik]
q?
15:20:47 [anssik]
Topic: Operator set Wave 3
15:20:52 [anssik]
anssik: PR #805
15:20:53 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/pull/805 -> Pull Request 805 Operator set wave 3 (by fdwr)
15:21:01 [anssik]
... this sizable PR addresses a number of open issues
15:21:08 [anssik]
... thank you Dwayne for updates and Ningxin and Josh for your review comments
15:21:21 [anssik]
... first I'd like to check we're capturing all the issues this PR closes, current list:
15:21:23 [jsbell]
(re: previous topic) To be explicit: plan to "review the change in context of the next CRS" SGTM
15:21:35 [anssik]
... closes #93 - PR adds quantizeLinear and dequantizeLinear
15:21:36 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/93 -> Issue 93 Add QuantizeLinear and DequantizeLinear for mixed precision (by kpu) [opset] [feature request]
15:21:49 [anssik]
... closes #467 - PR adds scatterElements, scatterND, gatherElements, gatherND (gather added earlier)
15:21:49 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/467 -> Issue 467 Where is scatter and gather op? (by muazhuda) [feature request] [operator specific]
15:22:03 [anssik]
... closes #772 - PR adds MLSliceOptions
15:22:04 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/772 -> Issue 772 Support strides option for `slice` operator (by huningxin) [feature request] [operator specific]
15:22:28 [anssik]
... closes #767? - we're adding scatter and gather ops, do we want "this operation can be generically emulated" box?
15:22:29 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/767 -> Issue 767 Request the decomposition for gatherElements, scatterElements and scatterND (by fujunwei) [operator specific]
15:22:39 [anssik]
... closes #773 - PR adds reverse
15:22:39 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/773 -> Issue 773 Support `reverse` operator (by huningxin) [feature request] [operator specific]
15:22:54 [anssik]
... closes #779 - PR adds blockwise broadcasting to quantizeLinear and dequantizeLinear
15:22:55 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/779 -> Issue 779 Support block-wise quantization (by huningxin) [operator specific]
15:23:12 [anssik]
... the spec PR is annotated with "TODO:" for sections that welcome contributions
15:23:19 [anssik]
q?
15:23:45 [anssik]
Dwayne: thanks everyone for your feedback!
15:23:58 [jsbell]
Thanks Dwayne!!!
15:25:26 [anssik]
Dwayne: algorithm steps for gather and scatter would welcome contributions
15:26:41 [anssik]
JoshB: I did a rough pass over many of the issues, nothing more related to this
15:27:16 [anssik]
q?
15:27:19 [jsbell]
A reminder to use GitHub's magic keywords in PRs to link to issues: https://docs.github.com/en/issues/tracking-your-work-with-issues/using-issues/linking-a-pull-request-to-an-issue
15:27:50 [anssik]
Topic: WebNN v2 issue triage
15:28:07 [anssik]
anssik: I discussed our "v2" issues with our two-person triage team, so wanted to bring the proposals to the group:
15:28:22 [anssik]
... to recap, we've used "v2" triage label when "issue is not considered a blocker for Proposed Recommendation”
15:28:43 [anssik]
... IOW, issues we expect to take a long time to settle, sometimes indefinitely if we choose a different design
15:28:54 [anssik]
... here's our proposals from "v2" triage:
15:29:00 [anssik]
... #714 - keep “v2”
15:29:01 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/714 -> Issue 714 Support multiple op sets / builders (by zolkis) [question] [v2] [opset]
15:29:45 [anssik]
... #623 - remove “v2”, since #809 address the device type and #805 QDQ - also noted in device-selection-explainer.md
15:29:45 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/pull/805 -> Pull Request 805 Operator set wave 3 (by fdwr)
15:29:46 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/623 -> Issue 623 WebNN should support NPU and QDQ operations (by wchao1115) [v2] [opset] [feature request] [device selection]
15:29:46 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/pull/809 -> Pull Request 809 Remove MLDeviceType (by zolkis) [device selection]
15:30:22 [anssik]
... #375 - remove “v2”, partially addressed by #805
15:30:23 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/375 -> Issue 375 Support for transformers (by dontcallmedom) [v2] [opset]
15:31:03 [anssik]
... #346 - closed per https://github.com/w3c/machine-learning-charter/issues/37
15:31:04 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/machine-learning-charter/issues/37 -> CLOSED Issue 37 Core operator set, scope and coordination (by anssiko)
15:31:04 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/346 -> CLOSED Issue 346 WebNN and StableHLO opset compatibility (by anssiko) [v2] [opset]
15:31:23 [anssik]
... #302 - remove “v2”, to be closed by #809
15:31:23 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/302 -> Issue 302 API simplification: context types, context options, createContext() (by zolkis) [v2] [device selection]
15:31:55 [anssik]
... #6 keep “v2”
15:31:56 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/6 -> Issue 6 Custom operations (by dsmilkov) [v2] [device selection]
15:32:10 [anssik]
... #1 keep “v2” — this is explored in the CG and could be relevant for future WebNN
15:32:11 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/1 -> Issue 1 Look into pre-canned models (by anssiko) [v2]
15:32:36 [anssik]
... does this look good to you?
15:32:42 [anssik]
... we'll update the issue tracker accordingly
15:33:10 [dwayner]
Sounds fine to me.
15:33:31 [anssik]
Topic: Disallow operations on scalar tensors that are no-ops
15:33:44 [anssik]
anssi: issue #794 was discussed on our previous call and we agreed to look at for which ops scalars make sense
15:33:45 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/794 -> Issue 794 Disallow operations on scalar tensors that are no-ops (by reillyeon) [operator specific]
15:34:05 [anssik]
... Dwayne brought up a point that in a math sense adding scalars makes sense, but implementation complexity may suggest otherwise
15:34:15 [anssik]
... Ningxin provided Chromium implementation experience to fill in the operator <-> scalar support table
15:35:12 [anssik]
... now that the results are in, quoting Dwayne's proposal we'd next:
15:35:17 [anssik]
... "determine which backends support scalars already, which do not, and whether it's worth extra code to wrap that operator in a temporary reshape of 0D to 1D"
15:35:54 [anssik]
Dwayne: I will doublecheck Ningxin's feedback and update the table, and will check with Reilly if he has any reservations for TFLite
15:36:18 [jsbell]
SG. I'll let Reilly and Phillis know.
15:36:21 [anssik]
... seems like this is well on track, thanks!
15:36:30 [anssik]
anssik: any questions or comments?
15:36:54 [anssik]
q?
15:36:57 [jsbell]
q+
15:37:02 [anssik]
ack jsbell
15:37:13 [anssik]
Topic: Caching mechanism for MLGraph
15:37:18 [anssik]
anssik: issue #807
15:37:19 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/807 -> Issue 807 Caching mechanism for MLGraph (by anssiko) [question] [feature request]
15:37:52 [anssik]
jsbell: Reilly IDL is not a concrete proposal, the next steps would be to work on an explainer and document use cases
15:37:59 [anssik]
s/Reilly/Reilly's
15:38:45 [anssik]
jsbell: encourage the group to work on this, not a high priority for the Google Chrome currently
15:39:07 [anssik]
McCool: have looked at this in the past, will see if I can contribute to the explainer
15:39:40 [anssik]
q?
15:41:32 [anssik]
Bryan: many app developers have abandoned monolithic caches in favor of reverting to the older hash-and-cache approach. This method involves setting various pieces of state independently, hashing them all for a GPU call, and using the hash as a key in an app-managed cache
15:42:25 [anssik]
... implicit caching is still the norm for drivers
15:44:08 [anssik]
Rafael: I think the proposal Reilly put forward is something to consider down the road, all comes down to what the platforms underneath do and recommend
15:44:28 [anssik]
... e.g. Core ML saves the compiled graph to disk that could be reused
15:46:11 [anssik]
... I can reach out to the web developers to provide feedback to the WG
15:46:17 [anssik]
q?
15:47:04 [zkis]
q+
15:47:23 [anssik]
ack zkis
15:47:54 [anssik]
Zoltan: it would be good to list developer use cases as code, couldn't we achieve the same with existing graph provided to the builder?
15:48:11 [anssik]
... use MLGraph objects themselves
15:48:29 [anssik]
q?
15:48:44 [anssik]
Topic: Expose WebNN API to service workers
15:48:56 [anssik]
anssik: issue #804 is a request from a web developer who's trying to use WebNN in a browser extension
15:48:57 [gb]
https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn/issues/804 -> Issue 804 Expose WebNN API to service workers (by zweack) [use case] [feature request]
15:49:04 [anssik]
... the error report in the issue is from the Edge browser dev tools console
15:49:19 [anssik]
... I believe all Chromium-based browsers use a service worker for the extension's background code that stays off the main thread
15:49:27 [anssik]
-> https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate/to-service-workers
15:49:41 [anssik]
anssik: WebGPU recently added support for service workers (and shared workers) to enable use cases such as WebLLM chrome extension
15:49:46 [anssik]
-> https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4197
15:49:46 [gb]
https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4197 -> CLOSED Issue 4197 API should be exposed to ServiceWorker (by MiguelsPizza) [proposal] [feature request]
15:49:52 [anssik]
-> https://github.com/mlc-ai/web-llm/tree/main/examples/chrome-extension-webgpu-service-worker
15:50:12 [anssik]
anssik: it looks like WebNN could similarly consider exposing the API to service workers to enable this use case for extensions?
15:50:18 [anssik]
... there are probably also other use cases for service workers?
15:50:28 [anssik]
... currently the ML interface is exposed to window and dedicated worker scope only
15:50:52 [RafaelCintron]
q+
15:51:03 [anssik]
... a separate consideration would be whether to expose the API to shared workers that can be accessed from several browsing contexts that share the exact same origin e.g. windows, iframes, also interested in use cases and possible abuse cases that we should mitigate against
15:51:05 [anssik]
q?
15:51:07 [anssik]
ack RafaelCintron
15:51:21 [dom]
https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4197
15:51:24 [anssik]
RafaelCintron: this same issue with service workers came up with WebGPU and they said yes
15:51:38 [anssik]
... I don't know under which criteria a Web API should not be exposed to service workers
15:51:38 [jsbell]
q+
15:51:47 [anssik]
q?
15:52:06 [anssik]
ack jsbell
15:52:25 [anssik]
jsbell: makes sense to me, haven't looked at this deeply
15:52:36 [dom]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/design-principles/#expose-everywhere "When exposing a feature, please consider whether it makes sense to expose the feature to all possible environments (via the [Exposed=*] annotation or including it on all global scope interfaces)." "Only purely computational features should be exposed everywhere. That is, they do not
15:52:36 [dom]
perform I/O and do not affect the state of the user agent or the user’s device."
15:52:43 [anssik]
... an API for SW has to be async, because not sync APIs supported in that context
15:53:18 [anssik]
... for SW there's no user visible surface, cannot support surfacing UI from SW
15:53:31 [anssik]
... long compute this might be an issue, because SW are short-lived and browser can shut them down after some activity
15:53:47 [anssik]
... if we do a graph build and it takes 30 seconds we should discuss with SW whether that is OK
15:53:49 [anssik]
q?
15:53:54 [dom]
q+
15:54:02 [anssik]
ack dom
15:54:35 [anssik]
dom: I put some guidance from TAG on this, "only purely computational APIs should be exposed everywhere"
15:54:56 [anssik]
... no observable side-effects in WebNN, seems compliant
15:55:45 [anssik]
jsbell: shared worker use case, we get that from folks doing big web apps so can move logic to a worker so not getting taxed when multiple tabs from the same origin are open
15:56:39 [anssik]
q?
15:56:59 [anssik]
Topic: Community Group meeting scheduling poll
15:57:08 [anssik]
anssik: the Community Group has been rechartered and the group’s scope expanded to new incubations
15:57:14 [anssik]
-> Community Group Incubations https://webmachinelearning.github.io/incubations/
15:57:16 [dom]
s/compliant/compliant. This suggests we may need to consider even exposing everywhere, not just in serviceworker
15:57:25 [anssik]
... to provide another venue for participants to exchanges ideas in addition to asynchronous collaboration through GitHub
15:57:43 [anssik]
... we plan to restart the Community Group meetings
15:57:52 [anssik]
... I asked interested CG participants to respond to the meeting scheduling poll by EOB 29 Jan 2025 to find a good time
15:57:56 [anssik]
... thank you for your responses, the results are now in:
15:58:04 [anssik]
... thank you for your responses, the results are now in:
15:58:09 [anssik]
s/... thank you for your responses, the results are now in:/
15:58:12 [anssik]
s/... thank you for your responses, the results are now in://
15:58:16 [McCool]
(sorry, ntd)
15:58:21 [anssik]
-> W3C WebML Community Group meeting poll https://doodle.com/meeting/participate/id/e5VrnyAa
15:58:25 [anssik]
... the top 3 options are:
15:58:34 [anssik]
Option 1 (14 yes)
15:58:34 [anssik]
Tue 4-5 pm PST / Wed 00-01 am UTC / Wed 8-9 am CST / Wed 9-10 am JST
15:58:34 [anssik]
cannot attend: Rafael, Thomas, Christian, Maxim, Christine
15:58:50 [anssik]
Option 2 (13 yes, 1 if need be)
15:58:50 [anssik]
Wed 4-5 pm PST / Thu 00-01 am UTC / Thu 8-9 am CST / Thu 9-10 am JST
15:58:50 [anssik]
cannot attend: Sushanth, Thomas, Christian, Christine
15:58:50 [anssik]
if need be: Etienne
15:59:00 [anssik]
Option 3 (11 yes, 2 if need be)
15:59:00 [anssik]
Tue 2-3 pm PST / Tue 10-11 pm UTC / Wed 7-8 am CST / Wed 7-8 am JST
15:59:00 [anssik]
cannot attend: Brad, Thomas, Ningxin, Sungpil, Domenic, Maxim
15:59:00 [anssik]
if need be: Christian, Christine
16:00:27 [anssik]
s/(14 yes)/(14 yes, 1 if needs be)
16:02:11 [anssik]
anssik: I'd like to find a time that works for the editor Domenic
16:02:16 [anssik]
... I've asked Etienne to help facilitate these meetings, so should the time fit him too
16:02:21 [anssik]
... it looks like Option 1 is the best compromise
16:02:28 [anssik]
... for consideration for people who cannot attend, meeting summary will be provided and discussed in the next WG meeting
16:02:36 [anssik]
... I believe this setup will enable closer WG-CG collaboration across multiple timezones
16:03:43 [anssik]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:03:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/30-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik
16:04:48 [anssik]
s/developer!/developers!
16:05:19 [anssik]
Present+ Christine_Hollingsworth
16:05:53 [anssik]
s/instruction/instructions
16:07:26 [anssik]
s/editor can/editors can
16:07:47 [anssik]
s/we reviewed/be reviewed
16:11:50 [anssik]
s/doublecheck/double-check
16:14:56 [anssik]
s/not sync APIs/sync APIs are not
16:15:16 [anssik]
s/compute this/compute time
16:15:53 [anssik]
s/serviceworker/service worker
16:17:51 [anssik]
s/(13 yes, 1 if need be)/(14 yes, 1 if need be)
16:18:31 [anssik]
s/(11 yes, 2 if need be)/(12 yes, 2 if need be)
16:19:04 [anssik]
s/fit him too/should fit him too
16:19:34 [anssik]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:19:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/30-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik
16:25:55 [anssik]
s/so should the time should fit/so should choose the time that works for
16:25:57 [anssik]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:25:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/30-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik