16:55:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-editors
16:55:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/22-aria-editors-irc
16:56:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria-editors
16:56:11 <dmontalvo> zakim, clear agenda
16:56:11 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:56:49 <dmontalvo> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ff35c0c2-a804-476f-a752-ffa112ee06eb/20250122T090000/
16:56:49 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:56:49 <agendabot> agenda+ [new] -> aria#2411 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2411 aria.js: always add "Accessible Name Required" to characteristics tables
16:56:49 <agendabot> agenda+ [new] -> aria#2407 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2407 aria.js: drop "deprecated on this role"
16:56:50 <agendabot> agenda+ [new PR] [peter] -> aria#2226 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2226 remove spec specific css or inline it
16:56:51 <agendabot> agenda+ [revisit] -> core-aam#238 https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/238 Consider listing known downstream AT support in AAMs
16:56:55 <agendabot> agenda+ [revisit] [james] -> aria#2396 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2396 respec fix for contributors
16:56:58 <agendabot> agenda+ [daniel] -> aria#2374 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2374 Enabling suggestions to update pull request branches
16:57:01 <agendabot> agenda+ [daniel] -> aria #2242 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2242 : Netlify to replace pr-review
16:57:04 <agendabot> agenda+ [peter] monorepo: aria-commmon -> aria#2230 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2230
16:57:07 <agendabot> agenda+ [peter] -> aria #2231 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2231 : turn on automatic prettier formatting for ARIA spec
16:57:10 <agendabot> agenda+ [rahim] -> aria #2287 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2287 : Add ReSpec aliasing clarity in README.me's "Editorial Documentation" section
16:57:14 <agendabot> agenda+ [james] -> aria PR #2136 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2136 Remove abbr elements
16:57:16 <agendabot> agenda+ [james] spec markup for advice for AT
16:57:36 <dmontalvo> zakim, start meeting
16:57:36 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:57:38 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA Editors
16:57:43 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, make logs publich
16:58:16 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, make logs Public
16:59:23 <pkra> pkra has joined #aria-editors
16:59:33 <pkra> zakim, agenda?
16:59:33 <Zakim> I see 12 items remaining on the agenda:
16:59:34 <Zakim> 1. [new] -> aria#2411 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2411 aria.js: always add "Accessible Name Required" to characteristics tables [from agendabot]
16:59:34 <Zakim> 2. [new] -> aria#2407 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2407 aria.js: drop "deprecated on this role" [from agendabot]
16:59:34 <Zakim> 3. [new PR] [peter] -> aria#2226 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2226 remove spec specific css or inline it [from agendabot]
16:59:37 <Zakim> 4. [revisit] -> core-aam#238 https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/238 Consider listing known downstream AT support in AAMs [from agendabot]
16:59:37 <Zakim> 5. [revisit] [james] -> aria#2396 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2396 respec fix for contributors [from agendabot]
16:59:37 <Zakim> 6. [daniel] -> aria#2374 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2374 Enabling suggestions to update pull request branches [from agendabot]
16:59:40 <Zakim> 7. [daniel] -> aria #2242 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2242 : Netlify to replace pr-review [from agendabot]
16:59:40 <Zakim> 8. [peter] monorepo: aria-commmon -> aria#2230 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2230 [from agendabot]
16:59:40 <Zakim> 9. [peter] -> aria #2231 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2231 : turn on automatic prettier formatting for ARIA spec [from agendabot]
16:59:41 <pkra> present+
16:59:43 <Zakim> 10. [rahim] -> aria #2287 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2287 : Add ReSpec aliasing clarity in README.me's "Editorial Documentation" section [from agendabot]
16:59:43 <Zakim> 11. [james] -> aria PR #2136 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2136 Remove abbr elements [from agendabot]
16:59:43 <Zakim> 12. [james] spec markup for advice for AT [from agendabot]
16:59:43 <pkra> scribe+
17:03:55 <spectranaut_> spectranaut_ has joined #aria-editors
17:14:08 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:14:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- [new] -> aria#2411 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2411 aria.js: always add "Accessible Name Required" to characteristics tables -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:14:51 <pkra> spectranaut_: let's do that.
17:14:56 <pkra> pkra: has to wait for aria.js
17:15:08 <pkra> ... oh, no.
17:15:20 <pkra> jamesn: does this just add length?
17:16:04 <pkra> ... other people might not like it.
17:16:21 <pkra> dmontalvo: I'd like a rationale why this is important.
17:16:41 <pkra> jamesn: where do we stop? e.g., children presentational is similar.
17:16:49 <pkra> ... prohibited states & props are similar.
17:17:01 <pkra> ... this is deliberate. Why do we want to change this?
17:17:30 <pkra> spectranaut_: accessible name required is somewhat important.
17:17:45 <pkra> jamesn: but doesn't the same apply to children presentational?
17:17:56 <pkra> dmontalvo: it would also add more columns/row.
17:18:11 <pkra> ... maybe better to clarify?
17:18:15 <pkra> ... in prose?
17:18:39 <pkra> jamesn: we wouldn't say "it's not required" in prose, would we?
17:19:46 <pkra> spectranaut_: so we add it somewhere?
17:19:48 <pkra> jamesn: it's missing in the bit from the top.
17:20:04 <pkra> ... we have it for presentational children but not for accessible name required
17:20:09 <pkra> spectranaut_: we should add it.
17:20:38 <pkra> jamesn: right. we can also improve presentational children part.
17:20:48 <pkra> ... we should go through them.
17:21:03 <pkra> spectranaut_: so accessible name in 5.2.8 ?
17:21:11 <pkra> jamesn: maybe. We should review it.
17:21:17 <pkra> ... I don't understand some sections.
17:21:46 <pkra> spectranaut_: that makes sense.
17:21:49 <pkra> pkra: +1
17:22:26 <pkra> jamesn: I'll write a response.
17:22:41 <pkra> pkra: and agenda it?
17:22:43 <pkra> spectranaut_: ys.
17:22:54 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:22:54 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [new] -> aria#2407 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2407 aria.js: drop "deprecated on this role" -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:23:42 <pkra> pkra: cannot really land without the aria.js refactoring.
17:23:48 <pkra> ... but: do we actually want this?
17:25:13 <pkra> spectranaut_: so this would remove them?
17:25:15 <pkra> pkra: yes.
17:25:37 <pkra> jamesn: does HTML do this?
17:25:57 <pkra> spectranaut_: I think removing this would mean browsers have to change how the process them. That seems like a blocker.
17:26:05 <pkra> jamesn: yes, this seems like busy work.
17:26:32 <pkra> dmontalvo: agree. reminds me of Wilco's comment on deprecation and stronger language.
17:27:07 <pkra> jamesn: we could re-organize the tables, I guess. But it seems like busy work, too.
17:27:27 <pkra> spectranaut_: should we put it on the agenda?
17:27:36 <pkra> pkra: would be good to hear from implementors.
17:28:07 <pkra> jamesn: I assume it's driven by not wanting to implement them in the new engine.
17:28:12 <pkra> pkra: are there WPT test?
17:28:51 <pkra> jamesn: good question. Seems difficult.
17:29:02 <pkra> pkra: feels like a big web question - new engine, what to do?
17:30:27 <pkra> jamesn: HTML has "obsolete but conforming". Will trigger warnings in checkers but authors can use.
17:30:37 <pkra> ... non-conforming features must not be used.
17:31:02 <pkra> ... it looks like it still does what to do.
17:31:48 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:31:48 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [new PR] [peter] -> aria#2226 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2226 remove spec specific css or inline it -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:56:15 <pkra> pkra: [presented on findings: to recap, nested lists should move to accname; table styles should be replaced by TR stylesheet's .def, the rest can be removed.
17:56:52 <pkra> ... in the discussion, jamesn raised concerns about making lists in characteristics table bulleted - but .def style seemed less problematic
17:57:10 <pkra> ... jamesn also mentioned other table styles
17:57:26 <pkra> ... overall, there was agreement to propose removing most styles.
17:57:43 <pkra> ... pkra will move the PR forward to get it out of draft
17:57:48 <pkra> zakim, end meeting
17:57:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pkra
17:57:49 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
17:57:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/22-aria-editors-minutes.html Zakim
17:57:57 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, pkra; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:57:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-editors