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14:01:17 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2
14:01:41 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:01:45 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:01:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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14:03:40 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Daniel_Peintner, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:03:47 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
14:03:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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14:05:17 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#January_15-16%2C_2024
14:07:20 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
14:08:04 <kaz> topic: Minutes
14:08:11 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2025/01/09-wot-td-minutes.html Jan-9
14:08:19 <kaz> ek: (goes through the minutes)
14:08:49 <kaz> ... any comments?
14:08:50 <kaz> (none)
14:09:11 <kaz> approved
14:09:32 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato, Michael_McCool
14:09:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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14:10:03 <kaz> topic: Agenda
14:10:15 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#January_15-16%2C_2024 Agenda for today
14:10:44 <kaz> ek: would like to talk about the Issue around the Binding registry
14:10:49 <kaz> topic: Binding
14:11:00 <kaz> subtopic: Registry inclusiveness
14:11:38 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/393 Issue 393 - Registry Inclusiveness
14:11:43 <cris> q+
14:11:51 <kaz> ek: should follow the W3C rule, look/feel?
14:11:54 <luca_barbato> q+
14:11:59 <kaz> ca: we can be flexible here
14:12:38 <kaz> ... would be OK to use a different style
14:12:39 <kaz> q+
14:13:04 <kaz> ack c
14:13:18 <kaz> mm: we should recommend the same order
14:13:23 <kaz> ... of the sections
14:13:45 <kaz> ... e.g., Introduction
14:14:22 <Ege> q?
14:14:45 <kaz> ... should be defined
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14:15:02 <kaz> lb: anything within the registry should follow the W3C rules
14:15:22 <kaz> ... regarding the look&feel, also should be the same
14:15:24 <McCool> q+
14:15:34 <kaz> ack l
14:15:53 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/?filter-tr-name=&status%5B%5D=dry&status%5B%5D=cry&status%5B%5D=ry W3C (Draft) Registries
14:16:22 <kaz> lb: less burden if we have the same style
14:16:45 <kaz> ... should be machine readable and parsable
14:18:18 <kaz> kaz: not really sure what we're talking about
14:18:30 <kaz> ... the Registry Track has its specific style and structure already
14:18:40 <kaz> ek: it's about the entry
14:19:49 <kaz> q+
14:19:51 <kaz> ack k
14:19:53 <kaz> q+
14:20:02 <kaz> ek: (shows the requirements.md)
14:20:13 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/blob/main/registry-requirements.md registry-requirements.md
14:20:37 <luca_barbato> q+
14:21:00 <kaz> mm: that's still "nice to have"
14:21:24 <kaz> ack m
14:21:48 <McCool> q+
14:21:53 <kaz> [[
14:21:54 <kaz> The WoT binding CAN be just one section of the document. In that case, the "Link to the binding document" in the registry entry MUST point to the specific location. PDF or similar document types CAN be submitted if the "Link to the binding document" in the registry entry contains a text pointing to the section. However, HTML and Webpages SHOULD be favoured.
14:21:54 <kaz> ]]
14:23:13 <kaz> lb: would like to think about something similar to the IANA registry
14:23:28 <kaz> mm: it's rather similar situation of MPEG here
14:23:36 <kaz> ... everyone still implements the format
14:23:58 <kaz> ... some of the entries are not free
14:24:23 <kaz> q?
14:24:27 <McCool> ack m
14:25:26 <McCool> q+
14:25:43 <McCool> (I would like to propose a compromise...)
14:30:22 <kaz> ack k
14:31:05 <kaz> kaz: think the question here "Should the binding document be required to follow W3C copyright rules, and should the document follow the exact template and look and feel?" should be clarified a bit
14:31:38 <kaz> ... e.g., what kind of binding definition document (our own ones or externally defined ones)
14:31:54 <kaz> ... and then the copyright, style, and so on can be discussed
14:32:33 <kaz> ek: question 1.1: should the linked binding document have the W3C copyright?
14:32:57 <kaz> ... question 1.2: should th elinked binding document have the same "look and feel" of the W3C documents?
14:33:29 <kaz> i/ek:/ek: (tries to split the question into two pieces)/
14:33:38 <kaz> q?
14:33:41 <kaz> ack lu
14:34:24 <kaz> lb: binding registry document should follow the W3C style
14:34:39 <kaz> ... if we provide some kind of template
14:34:52 <kaz> ek: we don't really provide templates for the Binding definition
14:35:02 <kaz> mm: would suggest some compromise
14:35:04 <kaz> ack m
14:35:15 <kaz> ... may be a published ontology
14:35:25 <kaz> ... organized by the other SDOs
14:35:39 <kaz> ... need to think about more than just a link
14:36:02 <kaz> q+
14:36:33 <kaz> ek: seems we're restarting the big part of the discussion...
14:37:22 <kaz> ... thought the registry document itself would just include links
14:37:57 <kaz> q?
14:37:57 <McCool> q+
14:39:44 <kaz> ack k
14:40:02 <kaz> kaz: think we're all thinking about something like the IANA registry
14:40:27 <kaz> ... so the registry document itself only manages the list of the entries with links to the actual definition documents
14:40:35 <luca_barbato> q+
14:40:40 <kaz> ... and the definition documents might be generated by external SDOS
14:40:51 <kaz> ... so we can't control the copyright or style of them
14:40:55 <kaz> ek: right
14:41:06 <kaz> q?
14:41:12 <kaz> mm: agree
14:41:14 <kaz> ack m
14:41:14 <McCool> ack m
14:42:19 <kaz> lb: guess we can have the situation with only the index rather than the links
14:42:51 <kaz> ... all we need is showing a link for the binding definition
14:43:00 <kaz> ... let's go for this direction
14:43:23 <kaz> ... we have a correction of bindings
14:43:35 <McCool> q+
14:43:58 <kaz> ... if we want to keep the full registry, then there is a potential burden
14:44:09 <kaz> ack lu
14:44:52 <kaz> ... if the custodian hosts, the implementation is easier
14:45:20 <kaz> ... if not, it's easier to write the documents but more difficult to implement
14:45:28 <kaz> mm: agree with that point
14:45:54 <kaz> ... would try to make WoT relevant
14:46:04 <kaz> lb: don't see what would be problematic
14:46:28 <kaz> ... let me explain a bit
14:47:06 <kaz> ... if there is a proprietary protocol, you still might want to use it
14:48:08 <kaz> q+
14:48:28 <kaz> mm: it's huge amount of legal work...
14:48:36 <McCool> ack m
14:49:04 <McCool> q+
14:49:51 <kaz> kaz: btw, the answer for the question should say "We cannot do it for all the bindings for legal reasons."
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14:50:19 <kaz> ... for free kind of protocols or our own defined protocols, we can generate binding documents ourselves
14:50:27 <kaz> mm: yeah, there are gray areas
14:50:31 <kaz> ack k
14:50:32 <kaz> ack m
14:51:00 <kaz> ek: can understand it would be easier for implementers if we could define all the binding documents
14:51:21 <kaz> ... but defining everything in the W3C manner is difficult
14:51:30 <McCool> (btw... the RTP registry has been closed... https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-rtp-payload-registry/)
14:52:16 <kaz> ek: so could we make a consensus here?
14:52:32 <kaz> lb: if the consensus is just keeping the index, that's fine
14:53:11 <kaz> ... but we can set a rule for those who are out of our target
14:53:54 <kaz> ... also we have a need a way to reach the linked documents which actually define the bindings
14:54:05 <kaz> ... so we need a way to verify them
14:54:15 <kaz> q?
14:54:17 <kaz> q+
14:54:33 <kaz> ek: (adds some points)
14:54:35 <McCool> (could just add a rule that the link should be stable and if it can't be resolved the entry will be removed from the registry, and also that the document should be a specific stable version - not updated in-place)
14:55:11 <kaz> ... if the document is detected to change and not fulfill the requirements, it can be removed.
14:56:02 <kaz> ... would make a decision now
14:56:17 <kaz> ... the custodian does not host the binding documents
14:56:27 <kaz> ca: does not have to?
14:56:31 <kaz> ek: right
14:56:51 <kaz> kaz: that's inline what I mentioned 5 mins ago
14:57:07 <kaz> ek: then 2nd point
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14:57:57 <kaz> ... as the custodian does not host it, it cannot enforce the W3C copyright.
14:58:03 <kaz> q?
14:58:05 <kaz> ack k
14:58:13 <kaz> kaz: we should make resolution for those points
14:58:27 <kaz> .... and for that purpose "it" here should be clarified again
14:58:31 <kaz> mm: yeah
14:59:12 <kaz> ... also we should define what the minimum requirements would be
14:59:22 <Ege> proposal: Custodian does not have to host the binding documents and associated files. Custodian hosts the summary document. The summary document's content will be decided later
14:59:48 <kaz> q+
15:00:27 <kaz> ack k
15:00:33 <Ege> resolution: Custodian does not have to host the binding documents and associated files. Custodian hosts the summary document. The summary document's content will be decided later
15:01:38 <Ege> proposal: As the custodian does not host the binding document, it cannot enforce the W3C copyright. Thus, the linked binding document does not have to follow W3C copyright.
15:02:50 <Ege> draft resolution: As the custodian does not host the binding document, it cannot enforce the W3C copyright. Thus, the linked binding document does not have to follow W3C copyright.
15:03:58 <kaz> i/draft/kaz: 2nd point should be a "draft resolution" now and to be confirmed with McCool
15:04:00 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:04:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/16-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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