18:19:01 RRSAgent has joined #openui 18:19:06 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/16-openui-irc 18:58:29 Zakim, start meeting 18:58:29 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:58:31 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), gregwhitworth 18:58:37 meeting: Open UI Telecon 19:01:41 jarhar has joined #openui 19:01:47 masonf has joined #openui 19:01:59 lwarlow has joined #openui 19:02:05 present+ 19:02:15 present+ 19:02:23 present+ 19:02:30 scribe: hdv 19:02:37 github-bot, take up https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1064 19:02:37 Topic: [interest invokers] How to define/control the action on "losing interest" 19:02:37 OK, I'll post this discussion to https://github.com/openui/open-ui/issues/1064. 19:02:43 present+ 19:03:31 masonf: I have been picking up the interesttarget thing. First thing that came up… trying to normalise how gaining and losing interest work 19:03:41 q+ 19:03:42 masonf: I added a comment with background to the issue… will give a summary 19:03:51 masonf: we wanted to build this like command and commandfor 19:04:06 masonf: eg what is the target and what will i do on it 19:04:33 masonf: but I don't know if it makes sense to do it similarly on interesttarget, because not sure if you'd have multiple actions. And you could get into weird situations 19:04:51 masonf: eg if you have a toggle for a popover that toggles on hover, it could get really weird 19:05:13 masonf: command/commandfor, the one in the explainer, has things like showing fullscreen elements or playing videos, seems actively bad to allow hover to do those things 19:05:40 masonf: so my Q: what elements should we support and do we need an interestaction, eg a way to specify the action. 19:06:11 masonf: personally I think we don't need interestaction, just have a default one. We should definitely support popovers as a target, and probably dialogs, can talk about that… but maybe not others. 19:06:23 masonf: and then we could think about custom actions too 19:06:40 q? 19:06:43 ack lwarlow 19:06:48 q+ nmn 19:07:01 scott has joined #openui 19:07:03 lwarlow: I don't think we need actions, I think I proposed and added, it seemed logical at the time, but don't think we need it 19:07:06 q+ 19:07:08 present+ 19:07:13 nmn has joined #openui 19:07:17 sarah7 has joined #openui 19:07:46 lwarlow: if it's something we want to add in the future, we could… I think we probably only would support popover, don't even think it makes sense to support dialog, certainly not modal dialogs, and given that non-modal dialogs would ideally be built with popover anyway… 19:07:47 Present+ 19:08:28 lwarlow: re the custom thing… we can do two things: no events and you do all of it custom… or we always fire the event, popover does a thing and no other element does 19:08:33 lwarlow: I'm in two minds about that 19:09:13 lwarlow: concern I have is… the command attr in the future…we can't change later / retroactively add if not preventdefaulting 19:09:38 lwarlow: I don't think in a year we would decide to randomly open, say,
…  19:09:42 ack nmn 19:09:50 q? 19:10:05 keithamus has joined #openui 19:10:20 nmn: question: the interest is opening up a hover card type of UI… we just said we would only open popovers not dialogs, I think it makes sense… but what sort of roles will the UI itself have? 19:10:33 q+ 19:10:51 nmn: something I'm currently building switches between a dialog and a tooltip depending on whether you trigger with a hobver as a temporary workaround 19:10:56 s/hobver/hover 19:11:05 masonf: to clarify the question is hovering to open a modal dialog 19:11:06 q+ 19:11:39 nmn: would agree with that we should not have fine grained control over type of trigger, would be hard to translate across platforms 19:11:43 present+ 19:11:43 ack flackr 19:11:58 flackr: +1 to firing an event with this for developers to handle 19:12:15 flackr: they can decide best how to handle it 19:12:33 +1 to that I was going to mention that and forgot to 19:12:42 ack sarah 19:12:45 q+ 19:12:46 flackr: @@@ 19:13:21 ack scott 19:13:22 sarah7: when something opens via hover, role at time of hover isn't super hover important as when you're on the trigger you wouldn't really have a way to get to the role 19:13:50 scott: I mentioned in the issue, modal dialog doesn't seem a useful addition in this case…  19:14:11 scott: would have no problem with non-modal dialogs, eg that's how people can create hovercards, they could be popovers or not 19:14:52 ack masonf 19:14:53 scott: if I hover over something by accident and the whole page becomes inert… could be really annoying… I'm thinking people who use voice access and don't control the mouse, they might be accidentally hovering by scroling 19:15:09 masonf: conclusions that I heard: we don't need interestaction. 19:15:19 masonf: also hearing we need events so that they can be handled 19:16:05 masonf: re future things like the open attribute… that probably makes sense to support, but it's a future thing so no backward compat issue 19:16:43 masonf: and I heard modal dialogs are out, I'm good with that too because of some use cases including the one scott mentioned 19:17:33 Proposed resolution: remove `interestaction` attribute, only support popovers and not modal dialogs, always fire the interest/loseinterest events at all events, and support the openable attribute in the future. 19:17:42 +1 19:18:22 q+ 19:18:36 ack flackr 19:18:47 flackr: some of the input modalities require us to know that it accepts intersts 19:18:57 flackr: need to handle if something accepts interest 19:18:59 masonf: yes 19:19:05 flackr: so we can't fire the interest events at all elements 19:19:19 flackr: we have to say I want to add an eventlistener for interest to say it is a thing that receives interst 19:19:31 q+ 19:20:07 masonf: we were thinking of adding something like an outline to elements with an interesttarget attr 19:20:35 Proposed resolution: remove `interestaction` attribute, only support popovers with default actions (e.g. not modal dialogs), always fire the interest/loseinterest events at all elements, and support the openable attribute in the future. 19:20:36 masonf: through the UA stylesheet, with :focus-visible 19:20:39 +1 19:20:50 +1 19:20:57 +1 19:20:57 +1 19:22:10 lwarlow: one thing to keep in mind… previously, we resolved that interesttarget can work on buttons, HTML links, area and, I think, SVG links… currently popover is defined in HTML, when speccing this, the SVG is going to be interesting? 19:22:36 masonf: agree, have been implementing for element 19:22:50 RESOLVED: remove `interestaction` attribute, only support popovers with default actions (e.g. not modal dialogs), always fire the interest/loseinterest events at all elements, and support the openable attribute in the future. 19:24:07 Zakim, end meeting 19:24:07 As of this point the attendees have been lwarlow, hdv, gregwhitworth, flackr, scott, dbaron, bkardell_ 19:24:09 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 19:24:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/16-openui-minutes.html Zakim 19:24:18 I am happy to have been of service, gregwhitworth; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 19:24:18 Zakim has left #openui 19:59:19 zrhoffman has joined #openui 20:23:06 Looking at the scrollback, something in the back of my mind insists on parsing the `interestaction` attribute as inter-estación (yes, I know there's really another `t` in it)