15:00:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
15:00:09 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-irc
15:00:14 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
15:00:23 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:00:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:00:54 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan
15:00:58 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
15:02:01 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
15:02:27 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura
15:03:55 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
15:04:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:04:32 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#January_15-16%2C_2024
15:04:37 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:04:58 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
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15:05:58 <kaz> regrets+ Mahda
15:06:04 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
15:07:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:09:02 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
15:09:06 <kaz> scribenick: cris
15:09:25 <cris> topic: minutes review
15:09:44 <cris> ege: last week we discussed about binding templates and uri schemes
15:09:58 <kaz> s/about //
15:10:11 <kaz> i|last week|-> https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html Jan-8|
15:10:14 <cris> ... any problems ?
15:10:24 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:10:31 <cris> ege: minutes approved
15:10:43 <kaz> s/topic: mi/topic: Mi/
15:10:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:11:46 <cris> topic: QueryAction operation
15:12:03 <cris> ege: this is a big discussion (at lest this is what we agreed last time)
15:12:17 <kaz> i/QueryA/topic: TD/
15:12:25 <kaz> s/topic: Q/subtopic: Q/
15:12:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:12:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:12:35 <cris> ... to really solve it now (creating a feature for TD 2.0) would take to much time
15:12:36 <cris> ... how do we want proceed?
15:12:40 <dape> q+
15:12:47 <cris> ... my proposal is to have a dirty solution for TD 1.1
15:13:07 <cris> ... and then have a real solution later on as part of managiable affordances
15:13:10 <cris> q+
15:13:59 <cris> dape: from my point of view, we need to fix in TD and then see if it works in Scripting
15:14:15 <cris> ege: really fixing in TD 1.1 we would need actually to create an errata
15:14:26 <cris> dape: I don't like to have an hacky solution
15:14:47 <cris> ... we don't want to have an errata
15:14:47 <kaz> s/managiable/manageable/
15:14:50 <dape> ack dape
15:15:25 <kaz> q+
15:16:28 <kaz> i|this is a big|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2068 Issue 2068 - Specify the result of queryaction operation|
15:16:37 <dape> q+
15:16:59 <cris> cris: I think we can work with it leaving underspecified but without taking assumptions (do workarounds)
15:17:45 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:17:48 <EgeKorkan> ack c
15:18:37 <cris> kaz: I agree, if we want to updated TD 1.1 specification that would be a normative change and it should be applied to 2.0 (as a new version).
15:18:41 <kaz> q-
15:18:49 <cris> s/updated/update/
15:19:29 <cris> dape: What we shouldn't do is creating a method call that needs to be reviewed in the next iteration
15:19:37 <cris> ... this is more a Scripting API discussion
15:19:46 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:19:47 <EgeKorkan> ack d
15:19:53 <kaz> q+
15:20:27 <kaz> q-
15:20:50 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
15:21:00 <cris> kaz: These issue should be solved in Scripting API and in Thing Description separately
15:21:12 <kaz> s/scribenick: kaz/scribenick: cris/
15:21:54 <EgeKorkan> proposal: The issue 2068 will not be addressed in TD 1.1
15:22:16 <EgeKorkan> resolution: The issue 2068 will not be addressed in TD 1.1
15:22:20 <kaz> s/These issue should be solved in Scripting API and in Thing Description separately/There are two questions here, one about TD and another about Scripting API, so we should clarify two resolutions for them separately./
15:22:34 <EgeKorkan> proposal: In TD 2.0, the issue 2068 will be fixed
15:22:55 <EgeKorkan> resolution: In TD 2.0, the issue 2068 will be fixed
15:23:59 <cris> subtopic: URI Scheme
15:24:00 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/eclipse-thingweb/node-wot/pull/1335
15:24:25 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2069
15:24:30 <cris> ege: we should use the issue above
15:24:44 <cris> ... to discuss further
15:25:24 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2069|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2069 wot-thing-description Issue 2069 - URL Scheme Decision|
15:25:50 <cris> ... basically since in OPCUA there could be reserved characters in the nodeId
15:25:54 <dape> q+
15:25:57 <kaz> s|https://github.com/eclipse-thingweb/node-wot/pull/1335|-> https://github.com/eclipse-thingweb/node-wot/pull/1335 node-wot PR 1335 - opcua: nsu in nodeId (fixing #1334)|
15:25:59 <cris> ... the idea is to enconde it only when it is needed
15:26:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:26:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:26:15 <dape> ack dape
15:26:24 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:26:27 <cris> .... fore example if a node id is http://.... the // won't be escaped
15:26:48 <cris> ... this is the decision taken for opc-ua
15:26:58 <cris> ... but there might be implications also for other protocol bindings
15:27:18 <cris> mk: we also discussed to use the path
15:27:29 <cris> ... with mqtt we are using other parameters
15:27:42 <cris> ... but I'm not sure if it was impacted
15:27:45 <cris> q+
15:29:43 <dape> q+
15:29:58 <EgeKorkan> ack c
15:29:59 <cris> cris: we went back and forth but we decided to use the query parameter which need less escapes
15:30:13 <cris> dape: what the decoder should do?
15:30:36 <cris> ... it just need to solve the # and &, right?
15:32:49 <cris> ... probably you should encode also %
15:32:54 <cris> cris: yeah
15:34:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:34:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:34:36 <cris> dape: then it means that in the encoding side we are doing something special and in the decoding side not
15:34:36 <kaz> s/OPCUA/OPC UA/
15:34:57 <kaz> s/enconde/encode/
15:35:13 <cris> cris: right that's why it would be better just to note that the nodeId goes in an URI so any special character should be enconded
15:35:41 <dape> q+
15:36:05 <kaz> s/# and &/`#` and `&`/
15:36:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:36:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:36:26 <kaz> s/%/`%`/
15:36:46 <cris> dape: I like this point, ZIP does something similar too. They just define the decoder rules.
15:37:03 <cris> ege: I would just direct people to not encode everything
15:37:10 <kaz> q+
15:37:15 <cris> ... because we get better readability
15:37:41 <kaz> -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent-encoding Percent-encoding
15:37:50 <cris> kaz: when we say enconding and decoding does that mean % encoding ?
15:37:59 <cris> ege: URL encoding?
15:38:08 <cris> kaz: yes they are the same concept
15:38:14 <kaz> s/% encoding/Percent-encoding/
15:38:25 <kaz> s/yes/yes,/
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15:38:35 <kaz> s/ does/, does/
15:39:24 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:39:27 <kaz> q-
15:39:29 <EgeKorkan> ack d
15:39:39 <kaz> q+
15:39:59 <cris> kaz: We should ask TAG for advice
15:40:06 <cris> ... when do we want to do that?
15:41:02 <cris> ege: since the discussion is almost settled down I would use issue 2069, summurize the decision, and ask for help
15:41:04 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2069
15:41:07 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/292
15:41:41 <cris> ege: in mqtt there is the same issue
15:41:52 <cris> ... there we have # and *
15:42:09 <cris> ... the decision so far was similar to what is now decided in opc-ua
15:42:47 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2069|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2069 wot-thing-description Issue 2069 - URL Scheme Decision|
15:43:21 <kaz> i|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/292|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/292 wot-binding-templates Issue 292 - MQTT URI Design|
15:43:44 <cris> ege: probably it was more delicate in mqtt
15:43:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:43:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:44:50 <cris> cris: yes, probably because we were trying to fit the topic in the path element of an uri
15:46:52 <cris> ege: . and .. are problematic in MQTT
15:46:58 <cris> ... I hope they are not used that much
15:47:30 <cris> q+
15:47:34 <kaz> q-
15:48:59 <cris> cris: When .. and . are problematic?
15:49:23 <kaz> s/../`..`/
15:49:35 <kaz> s/and . /and `.`/
15:49:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:49:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:50:01 <kaz> s/# and */`#` and `*`/
15:50:14 <kaz> s/`are/` are/
15:50:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:50:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:50:37 <cris> ege: it seems everywhere
15:58:10 <dape> q+
15:59:17 <cris> dape: we can still use the query parameter
15:59:33 <cris> ... without having to worry that much about / and URI arithmetic
15:59:43 <cris> ... and maybe more consistent
16:00:21 <dape> ack dape
16:03:09 <cris> cris: having the topic in the path would allow to do some simplification when writing the URL
16:05:12 <cris> ege: ok thank you, tomorrow we will discuss registry inclusiveness
16:05:22 <cris> ege: please be there we want to reach a resolution
16:05:24 <EgeKorkan> q?
16:05:26 <EgeKorkan> ack c
16:05:36 <cris> [adjourned]
16:05:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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