13:03:05 RRSAgent has joined #global-inclusion 13:03:09 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-global-inclusion-irc 13:03:09 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:03:10 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Jan 13:04:02 meeting: Global-Inclusion - Internationalization Accessibility Community Group 13:04:17 date: 15 01 2025 13:04:39 chair: Jan_McSorley 13:04:54 zakim, clear agenda 13:04:54 agenda cleared 13:10:41 Agenda+ Makoto's topic: WCAG 2.2 errata to address insufficient support for vertical writing and other typographic conventions of non-western languages. 13:10:55 Agenda+ Review Existing COGA Personas (https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#persona) and discuss the following: (1) Are there improvements that can be made in terms of intersectionality?; (2) Are there suggestions for names of existing personas that would better reflect an international audience? 13:11:26 Agenda+ Discuss ideas for a new persona, as suggested by the i18n working group. They would like a persona of someone who is a non-native speaker with limited language skills? 13:11:34 present+ 14:02:14 Frankie has joined #global-inclusion 14:02:21 present+ 14:02:23 julierawe has joined #global-inclusion 14:02:24 Jan has joined #global-inclusion 14:02:36 present+ 14:02:39 Makoto has joined #global-inclusion 14:02:50 present+ 14:05:27 andy has joined #global-inclusion 14:07:26 The group started by doing introductions and welcoming a new member. 14:11:59 Jan gave quick intro to this group's background 14:13:26 present+ 14:14:07 chiaracerretti has joined #global-inclusion 14:14:26 zakim, next item 14:14:26 agendum 1 -- Makoto's topic: WCAG 2.2 errata to address insufficient support for vertical writing and other typographic conventions of non-western languages. -- taken up [from Jan] 14:17:02 Makoto: When WCAG 2.1, someone raised a question about vertical writing, but the text was not changed in WCAG 2.1. Then when WCAG 2.2 was about to become a recommendation, another concern was raised about vertical writing. There are recommendations in WCAG 2.2 that are not appropriate for vertical languages. We wanted to change normative text, but 14:17:02 it was blocked - it was my understanding that people from the European government wrote that section. 14:17:39 *Had already been approved by European governments, so no language changes could be made 14:17:59 Makoto: For vertical languages we need vertical margins. Makoto would like to pursue an errata to make sure that it's incorporated in the ISO standard that will incorporate WCAG 2.2. 14:18:06 Concern was raised with Japanese authorities by Makoto 14:18:46 Andy: In WCAG, how many references are there to left and right margins 14:19:17 Makoto: The minimal, a few paragraphs need to be changed, but if we want to be completely neutral about languages, then we probably need to change more. 14:19:59 Makoto: If we want to make sure that WCAG 2.2 is appropriate for all languages in the world, we might want to drop number of characters 14:20:26 Julie: Every week, AG meets for 2 hours and part of the time is spent on changes for 2.2. 14:20:37 Julie: were there issues put into Github? 14:20:48 Makoto: Yes, we opened issues, but they were closed. 14:21:36 Julie: I will look into this and maybe Makoto needs to file another issue. Julie recommends that we connect with a human and file a new issue. 14:23:43 Julie: WCAG 3 work - just at the beginning of drafting requirements for WCAG 3 - there are requirements being written over the next few months - one of them is about text appearance and another group about organization and structure and the other group is the plain language group where we've talked about implied meaning and will be doing other 14:23:43 topics. 14:24:12 Julie: There's an open survey that is open until January 21st, so it's a good time to join. 14:25:46 Makoto: I appreciate the invitation, on the other hand, I am a bit intimidated because it's not easy to simplify the needs of the Japanese language 14:26:09 Julie: I am intimidated by this work, but the more input we can get, the better it will be. 14:27:53 Action item: Julie will send Makoto and Jan the name of the point person for making updates to WCAG 2.2 14:29:07 For W3C members, you can join the teams that are drafting WCAG 3 requirements. Here is background on the 8 teams that will finish initial drafts over the next 6 months: 14:29:33 Discover data-driven insights about learning differences and ADHD through research briefs, literature reviews, and user research studies conducted by the Understood team 14:29:37 Oops, wrong thing 14:30:00 Link to the AG description of the WCAG 3 teams: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1tYwmb-s8syk9JWAAsdlsCrPYfBwSy1-_BDZQDNowGjg/edit#slide=id.g322b8e79524_0_20 14:30:42 FYI, I am not sure if that slide can be viewed by anyone with the link or if you have to be a W3C member 14:31:27 I just opened it julierawe, thanks for sharing 14:31:34 And here is the survey to join one of the WCAG 3 teams—the survey closes at 23:59 Boston Time on Tuesday, January 21st: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Path_Participation_25/? 14:31:59 The survey is only open to W3C members 14:32:24 andy You can join later once you become an invited expert 14:33:15 q+ 14:34:54 Makoto: Do some people have issues with the number of characters per line? 14:36:37 Julie: People will have the ability to chime asynchronously into all of the changes that are happening - there are many challenges to getting everyone to the table. 14:38:34 Concerns expressed about issues having been closed without resolution 14:38:36 ack Julie 14:39:24 zakim, next item 14:39:24 agendum 2 -- Review Existing COGA Personas (https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/#persona) and discuss the following: (1) Are there improvements that can be made in terms of 14:39:27 ... intersectionality?; (2) Are there suggestions for names of existing personas that would better reflect an international audience? -- taken up [from Jan] 14:42:11 Andy: I added some notes and edited one persona in the Homework doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL1eK0z5pQbUkmdvJWa0pTV4JhkkWZ4dqwT7yIh7CpY/edit?tab=t.0 14:43:56 Details for the new persona Len is drafting: 14:43:56 —Non-native speaker with limited language proficiency 14:43:56 —Mental health disorder 14:43:56 —Possibly a refugee with anxiety and/or post-traumatic stress disorder 14:44:59 Chiara: One thing to consider for the new persona - when you move to a new country, there can be an issue with depression and the language barrier can be a huge problem because you have an issue interacting with the locals. 14:46:03 Julie: We got feedback from someone that said that when you have a persona that has more than one big characteristic, it's hard to isolate on the needs. We can explore whether we should have anxiety, depression, or PTSD 14:46:50 Chiara: I think depression is a common thing when moving to a new country because they don't feel like they belong. 14:48:20 kirkwood has joined #global-inclusion 14:48:32 q? 14:50:02 Frankie: I did a lot of volunteer life with refugee organizations and help them gain the digital literacy they needed to apply for jobs in the United States. The emotional changes people go through was significant. I wanted more mental health coverage in the personas - it feels like a huge gap to me. 14:52:29 Andy: I was also mentioning global inclusion and intersectionality on all of the personas we have. I am kind of against adding a separate persona and instead adding additional information to the existing personas: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL1eK0z5pQbUkmdvJWa0pTV4JhkkWZ4dqwT7yIh7CpY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.iwv30wqbni6 14:53:23 Andy: Should we avoid names with a religious roots? 14:54:01 Julie: That is a good flag, Andy - I know that Lisa is open to changing names, so maybe if we change the religious names to more global names. 14:55:39 Andy: We discussed being more gender inclusive - would it be a good idea to add pronouns to all of the personas? 14:57:13 Julie: Are you suggesting that right after a person's name, you put the pronouns right after their name? 14:57:55 Andy: If you put it in the header, it would be easier to find, but we can discuss where it goes, but in parenthesis so that it's clear. 14:58:57 Julie: If I remember correctly, one persona is they/them and there were some questions about whether that would translate culturally? The question came up about whether this would be understood by cultures where this is not yet the norm. 15:00:33 Andy: If we only shows pronouns for they/the and not all pronouns, then we are isolating people with they/them - by doing it for everyone, it's a consistent pattern and we're not making people stand out. 15:02:22 present+ 15:02:53 Julie: I believe we're going to try to add a photograph of the personas in the future, so there will be changes. 15:05:24 julierawe has joined #global-inclusion 15:05:28 present+ 15:05:32 rrsagent, make minutes 15:05:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-global-inclusion-minutes.html julierawe 15:07:23 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:07:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-global-inclusion-minutes.html Jan 15:07:56 zakim, end meeting 15:07:56 As of this point the attendees have been Jan, Frankie, julierawe, Makoto, andy, kirkwood 15:07:58 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:08:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-global-inclusion-minutes.html Zakim 15:08:05 I am happy to have been of service, Jan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:08:06 Zakim has left #global-inclusion 15:08:42 rrsagent, bye 15:08:42 I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-global-inclusion-actions.rdf : 15:08:42 ACTION: item to Julie will send Makoto and Jan the name of the point person for making updates to WCAG 2.2 [1] 15:08:42 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/15-global-inclusion-irc#T14-27-53