14:59:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
14:59:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-irc
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15:02:23 <acoburn> Zakim, start meeting
15:02:23 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:02:25 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
15:02:31 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
15:02:49 <bendm> bendm has joined #lws
15:02:57 <bendm> present+
15:03:03 <eBremer> present+
15:03:08 <csarven> present+
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15:03:12 <hadrian> present+
15:03:16 <balessan> present+
15:03:19 <acoburn> present+
15:03:23 <kaefer3000> present+
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15:03:26 <ryey> present+
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15:04:35 <TallTed> present+
15:04:53 <TallTed> Zakim, agenda?
15:04:53 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:05:01 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250113T100000/
15:05:03 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:05:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Introductions and announcements
15:05:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending -> action items https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:05:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Initial -> label set https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/91 for user stories
15:05:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Applying labels to existing user stories
15:05:15 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Linked Web Storage WG -- 2025-01-13 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20250113T100000/
15:05:45 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:05:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:05:57 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:06:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:06:41 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/01/06-lws-minutes.html
15:06:41 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2025/01/20-lws-minutes.html
15:07:39 <acoburn> chair: acoburn
15:07:46 <acoburn> scribenick: ryey
15:08:04 <acoburn> agenda?
15:08:23 <acoburn> open item 1
15:08:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:09:19 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 1
15:09:19 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions and announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:10:22 <ryey> acoburn: Checking new participants. No.  In November, @xxx said will be joining from Japan. US timezone and Japan may make meetings difficult.
15:10:22 <gb> https://github.com/xxx -> @xxx
15:10:33 <acoburn> next agendum
15:11:00 <TallTed> s|https://github.com/xxx -> @xxx||
15:11:07 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
15:11:07 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, TallTed
15:11:20 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:11:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:11:47 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 2
15:11:47 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Pending -> action items https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:11:55 <TallTed> Zakim, close item 1
15:11:55 <Zakim> agendum 1, Introductions and announcements, closed
15:11:56 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:11:56 <Zakim> 2. Pending -> action items https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction [from agendabot]
15:12:07 <ryey> ... For TPAC meetings, usually face-to-face, but also virtually. Ideally people can join, in person or remote.
15:12:12 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:12:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:13:21 <ryey> ... Anything still pending? Hadren?
15:14:15 <ryey> hadrian: Was at BBC. Added some details. Question 1: How do we triage an issue, and how do we close it?
15:15:12 <ryey> ... Item 2: @xxx said he agrees with me, but I don't agree with myself.. We need to get a resolution.
15:15:12 <gb> https://github.com/xxx -> @xxx
15:15:52 <ryey> acoburn: I think Item 2 is done already. Am I mistaken?
15:16:30 <ryey> acoburn: Issue #10 in lws protocol
15:16:30 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/10 -> Action 10 apply statusses as labels to the lws-ucs repo (on hzbarcea) due 2025-01-13
15:17:20 <csarven> ryey, just use "XXX" as a thing that could be substituted.
15:17:30 <csarven> then we do `s/XXX/foo`
15:18:00 <ryey> hadrian: I think it's mostly done, with one item needs further discussion.
15:18:45 <TallTed> s|https://github.com/xxx -> @xxx||g
15:19:01 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:19:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:19:19 <ryey> acoburn: I would suggest we are going to talk about the labels in a minute. And we close this issue.
15:20:04 <ryey> hadrian: You probably saw my comments previously. I think it can be closed.
15:20:18 <ryey> acoburn: Closing it now.
15:20:21 <acoburn> Zakim, next agendum
15:20:21 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Initial -> label set https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/91 for user stories -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:20:45 <ryey> ... Hand over to Hadrien for user storie
15:21:20 <TallTed> s/@xxx said he agrees/wouter said he agrees/
15:21:44 <ryey> hadrian: Authn and Auth are different. we should note this. I added the relevant labels. Labels are not exclusive.
15:22:01 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:22:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:22:10 <ryey> ... Question: when can I remove the triage from stories, and when should we close issues?
15:23:03 <ryey> ... Also another comment about keeping labels more coarse. I'm neutral to that.
15:23:26 <csarven> q+ to suggest that no UC issue needs to be closed until much later e.g., when all issues are taken into account in the UC Note or postonned. Remove triage label when some specific labels are assigned (categorisation)
15:23:40 <ryey> acoburn: We will use labels to help categorize issues. We can start categorizing the issues already.
15:24:24 <laurens> laurens has joined #lws
15:24:30 <laurens> present+
15:24:46 <ryey> csarven: I think when we understand an issue well enough, we can remove triage. We don't need to worry to much for closing, as long as it's still relevant.
15:25:11 <hadrian> q+
15:25:15 <bendm> +1 on csarvens comments
15:25:29 <ryey> ... We just need a marker to denote we have already seen it and discussed it. Not necessary need to close it.
15:25:34 <acoburn> ack csarven
15:25:34 <Zakim> csarven, you wanted to suggest that no UC issue needs to be closed until much later e.g., when all issues are taken into account in the UC Note or postonned. Remove triage label
15:25:37 <Zakim> ... when some specific labels are assigned (categorisation)
15:25:37 <acoburn> ack hadrian
15:26:12 <ryey> hadren: One possibility is to allow issuer to remove triage mark. Otherwise it may be too difficult to manage.
15:26:15 <acoburn> q+
15:26:24 <acoburn> ack acoburn
15:26:33 <hadrian> s/hadren/hadrian/g
15:27:50 <ryey> acoburn: What if we leave the issue open, but if we agree the issue is well-disscussed, we remove triage.
15:28:08 <ryey> hadrian: Yes. My question is: who should be responsible to remove the triage mark.
15:28:53 <ryey> acoburn: Technically anyone can. I suggest editor can add/remove labels as appropriate. If it's not your issue, feel free to add labels.
15:29:48 <ryey> hadrian: Thus I propose to add another label named "review", and assign it to original author. Give it 1-2 weeks. Then, move it to triage. If no response, close it.
15:29:59 <ryey> acoburn: Writing that as a proposal
15:30:06 <acoburn> PROPOSED: add a new label, called "review", when the triage label is removed. Assign the issue to the author of the issue and provide 1-2 weeks for review
15:30:20 <ryey> hadrian: I think that would satisfy anyone's needs
15:30:35 <TallTed> +1
15:30:36 <ryey> ... Yes, I second the written proposal
15:30:43 <hadrian> +1
15:30:44 <bendm> +1
15:30:44 <acoburn> +1
15:30:46 <balessan> +1
15:30:50 <laurens> +1
15:30:51 <ryey> +1
15:30:53 <kaefer3000> +1
15:30:57 <eBremer> +1
15:31:06 <jeswr> jeswr has joined #lws
15:31:12 <jeswr> +0
15:31:25 <acoburn> RESOLVED: add a new label, called "review", when the triage label is removed. Assign the issue to the author of the issue and provide 1-2 weeks for review
15:31:46 <ryey> hadrian: Plus, anyone, if they are not satisfied with the assigned label, can change it
15:32:29 <ryey> ... This has addressed all my questions at the beginning of the call.
15:32:54 <acoburn> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/91 Proposal for labels
15:32:55 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/91 -> Issue 91 Categorization of user stories (by laurensdeb) [needs-discussion]
15:33:36 <bendm> q+
15:33:42 <ryey> acoburn: For issue #91 in UCS repo. Can we do a quick poll for if we are happy with the current initial proposal? (Just a poll, not a resolution.)
15:33:42 <gb> Issue 91 not found
15:33:49 <acoburn> ack bendm
15:34:34 <ryey> ... (proposal by Hadrian)
15:35:07 <ryey> bendm: We need the labels with descriptions
15:35:30 <TallTed> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/labels -> list of labels with descriptions
15:35:47 <ryey> hadrian: Data management has to do with management of data. Infrastructure has to do with manage of system.
15:36:19 <ryey> kaefer3000: In an issue, xxx3 is roughly equivalent to data management. I don't know if it's a misrepresentation.
15:36:41 <csarven> q+ add/extend label descriptions to help with categorization and also for reviewing after triage
15:36:49 <ryey> hadrian: I think there is a difference. E.g. for portability, do we care about the underlying storage?
15:37:33 <ryey> kaefer3000: I would say "data management" means "do we have a triple store, or file store"? Thus similar to infrastructure?
15:37:56 <TallTed> q+
15:38:05 <acoburn> ack csarven
15:38:21 <ryey> hadrian: Some people may still have issues, and there will still be some new proposals. But I think the current main item is whether the current category is a good start thing to use already or not.
15:39:10 <ryey> csarven: Maybe we can expand the description of categories when needed. The issue author should also check if the assigned labels are indeed correct.
15:39:36 <ryey> hadrian: Absolutely. Also, we should also add some links to README
15:40:07 <acoburn> csarven: yes, an initial list. not set in stone
15:40:16 <kaefer3000> q+
15:40:25 <ryey> csarven: I believe the list is not fixed. We will always update them. Point is: we use it to help us manage use cases. They are good starting points for me.
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15:41:30 <acoburn> ack TallTed
15:41:32 <ryey> ... If someone is assigned editor, they need to maintain uniformity. Hadrian should be in a better position to have the better say when needed.
15:42:11 <acoburn> ack kaefer
15:42:12 <ryey> TallTed: Agree current list is a good starting one to use, and we can refine things as we go.
15:43:23 <ryey> kaefer3000: "Infrastructure" sounds to me like architecture, like what components we have. "Data management" sounds like what storage components are there. So somewhat non-clear, and needs clarification.
15:44:00 <ryey> acoburn: It seems we generally agree the current list for now, and start using.
15:44:18 <ryey> ... Any further comments? No.
15:44:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:44:56 <ryey> ... We still have 10 minutes. we can start to add labels to some now, to do some demonstration.
15:45:52 <ryey> ... Hadrian, do you think we should try that now, or end early?
15:45:55 <acoburn> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/46 Data integration
15:45:57 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/46 -> Issue 46 [UC] Data integration across medical, fitness, dietary, medication data (by timbl) [triage] [usecase]
15:46:22 <ryey> ... Let try this one (#46).
15:46:22 <gb> Issue 46 not found
15:47:01 <bendm> data management
15:47:06 <ryey> ... (Explained the issue content.) What kinds of labels do we want to add for it?
15:47:15 <bendm> authorization
15:47:16 <csarven> discovery + management
15:47:42 <TallTed> q+
15:48:00 <acoburn> ack TallTed
15:48:20 <ryey> hadrian: I think many (e.g. authorization) are implicit and most use cases will be related to them. So we should add the most relevant ones.
15:48:42 <bendm> +1 on TallTed, that's why I'd add authorization
15:49:00 <bendm> q+
15:49:07 <acoburn> ack bendm
15:49:07 <ryey> TallTed: This one may be extremely complex, if considering different laws. May not be a good starting point.
15:49:40 <eBremer> q+
15:49:42 <ryey> bendm: I think so, so I added authorization
15:49:48 <acoburn> eBremer
15:50:34 <ryey> eBremer: I agree with TallTed. It's not the best thing we should start to tackle right now.
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15:51:16 <ryey> acoburn: I agree, but we should start to recognize that something are complicated. But we should always finish it in time-frame.
15:51:34 <TallTed> q+
15:51:39 <ryey> ... Even if complex, we should still try to categorize it, to help us progress.
15:51:43 <acoburn> ack TallTed
15:51:47 <csarven> s/tackle right now. And, probably out of scope./
15:52:42 <eBremer> +1 TallTed
15:52:45 <ryey> TallTed: Maybe still start with simpler ones, with one or two categories, to better demonstrate. This one, for me, contains all categories (which may be a good thing in fact). I'm sure we will get there, but not right now.
15:53:06 <acoburn> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/21 Storage Description
15:53:07 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/21 -> Issue 21 [UC] Server / Storage Description (by csarven) [triage] [usecase]
15:53:14 <ryey> acoburn: I agree. It may not be the best one to use now. Maybe alternatively try #21
15:53:14 <gb> Issue 21 not found
15:54:21 <TallTed> s|Issue 21 not found||
15:54:21 <TallTed> s|Issue 46 not found||
15:54:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:54:45 <ryey> ... csarven, maybe you do it as it's from you?
15:55:41 <ryey> csarven: Data management, maybe? I think Hadrian made a good point to focus on the core one(s). So, data management and data discovery.
15:56:28 <ryey> acoburn: Any further topics? Nope
15:57:04 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:57:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:59:00 <acoburn> s/In November, @xxx said will be joining from/In November, TPAC will take place in/
15:59:31 <acoburn> s/Hadren/Hadrian/
15:59:38 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:59:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html acoburn
16:09:04 <pchampin> i|-> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/46 Data integration|topic: Discussing use cases
16:09:10 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:09:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html pchampin
16:10:06 <pchampin> s|-> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/46 Data integration|subtopic: -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/46 Data integration
16:10:10 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:10:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html pchampin
16:10:50 <pchampin> s|-> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/21 Storage Description|subtopic: -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/21 Storage Description
16:10:51 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:10:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/13-lws-minutes.html pchampin
16:12:17 <m2gbot> m2gbot has joined #lws
19:51:03 <TallTed> Zakim, bye
19:51:03 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been bendm, eBremer, csarven, hadrian, balessan, acoburn, kaefer, ryey, TallTed, laurens
19:51:03 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lws
19:51:07 <TallTed> RRSAgent, bye
19:51:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items