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14:43:27 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/09-i18n-irc
14:43:31 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20250109T150000/
14:43:31 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:43:31 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
14:43:31 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
14:43:32 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
14:43:34 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
14:43:43 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
14:43:43 <agendabot> agenda+ Normativity of i18n-glossary
14:43:43 <agendabot> agenda+ Specdev changes related to TAG design-principles
14:43:43 <addison> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:43:44 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
14:43:47 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:43:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/09-i18n-minutes.html addison
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14:57:09 <addison> present+
15:01:09 <addison> present+ Atsushi
15:01:17 <atsushi> atsushi has joined #i18n
15:01:29 <addison> present+ Fuqiao, Bert
15:01:58 <addison> present+ PLH
15:02:12 <plh> plh has joined #i18n
15:02:59 <atsushi> scribe+
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15:03:51 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:03:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:03:53 <addison> agenda?
15:05:12 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
15:05:12 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Normativity of i18n-glossary -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:05:23 <addison> The i18n-glossary is a NOTE. This causes problems when referencing it in normative specs. We suggested making this okay, but there has been push back. Inviting PLH to attend to discuss.
15:05:28 <atsushi> addison: invited PLH, on status of i18n glossary
15:05:28 <plh> GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/Guide/issues/269
15:05:29 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/Guide/issues/269 -> Issue 269 Make I18N Glossary definitions okay in normative blocks (by aphillips)
15:06:00 <atsushi> addison: we have suggestion on references in normative section, etc.
15:06:59 <atsushi> plh: complementaly to INFRA spec
15:07:16 <atsushi> addison: INFRA is normative one, which others are referencing
15:07:29 <atsushi> ... our glossary keep overlap with them
15:07:58 <r12a> q+
15:08:06 <atsushi> PLH: we could use/rely on INFRA, but for glossay to use we need to bring thing into rec-track
15:08:14 <addison> ack next
15:08:39 <atsushi> r12a: all of our stuff are educational one, instead of definitions
15:08:56 <atsushi> ... for rec-track, we have definitions which INFRA already has
15:09:10 <atsushi> ... we explain things in more educational purpose
15:09:49 <atsushi> plh: duplication is not issue, we have already some. concern on not at rec-track
15:10:09 <atsushi> r12a: INFRA is mainly focusing on HTML, our glossary is more wider view
15:10:15 <atsushi> ... could conflict in that way
15:10:58 <atsushi> ... when we change our glossary definition, which happens many times, specs picking terminology form them could affect
15:11:05 <atsushi> ... some spec copies text from our glossary
15:11:19 <atsushi> plh: proposal to link to glossary from specs
15:12:26 <atsushi> addison: formal definition could be linked from rec-track, to provide definition, and our glossay can add some related terminology/definitions
15:14:30 <atsushi> plh: could be referred from normative section, also you can attach informative part as note to term definition
15:14:52 <atsushi> ... adding note to let people know about difference, like code points example
15:15:14 <atsushi> ... going to normative is not so heavy, we could stick at CR without going to REC
15:15:35 <atsushi> ... could have little bit flexibility on handling
15:16:37 <atsushi> plh: for implementation, we could do some, and there are real example in long past
15:16:46 <atsushi> addison: we may need to rechater to include
15:17:10 <atsushi> plh: let me check, but charter might have some text for rec-track document in scope?
15:17:28 <atsushi> plh: scope explicitly exclude rec-track document, for now
15:18:41 <atsushi> ... I think right thing to add as rec-track, stability as well
15:20:03 <atsushi> [discussion on tooling for current handling]
15:24:01 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-glossary/#dfn-glyph
15:25:09 <atsushi> addison: we would need to refactor glossaly into normative and note
15:25:18 <atsushi> r12a: we may have both even for term
15:26:23 <atsushi> plh: agree, before we do rechartering we need to dig into these filtering on terminology and definitions
15:28:11 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/process/issues/904
15:28:12 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/process/issues/904 -> Issue 904 Glossaries: a different pattern needed? (by cwilso)
15:28:44 <atsushi> xfq: there are already related discussion in process issue
15:28:45 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/png/issues/270
15:28:46 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/png/issues/270 -> CLOSED Issue 270 Normative reference to informative definition (by ProgramMax) [i18n-tracker] [blocking-3rd-edition-cr]
15:28:57 <atsushi> ... specific spec issue is in png spec
15:34:40 <atsushi> plh: thank you for pointing this issue xfq, and bring into process CG in two weeks
15:40:06 <atsushi> addison: we need to install regulatory to align with Process, informative and normative candidates
15:40:38 <atsushi> ... careful look into informative ones, turing into normative description
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15:43:00 <atsushi> plh: might not into rec-track, but potential to registry
15:45:13 <plh> [[
15:45:14 <plh> A registry report or registry section is purely documentational, is not subject to the W3C Patent Policy, and must not contain any requirements on implementations. For the purposes of the Patent Policy [PATENT-POLICY], any registry section in a Recommendation track document is not a normative portion of that specification.
15:45:23 <plh> ]]
15:47:27 <atsushi> plh: to reference registry in normative rec-trac spec, example in png spec.
15:48:19 <atsushi> ... can use registry for these case, should be questioned
15:48:38 <atsushi> ... more requirement on registry than group note
15:52:18 <atsushi> plh: want to inject some more questions
15:52:25 <plh> https://www.w3.org/PM/horizontal/board.html?name=Internationalization
15:52:44 <atsushi> plh: added panel to horizontal board as above
15:53:05 <addison> agenda?
15:53:44 <atsushi> ... looking into agenda+ label
15:54:14 <addison> (I have more kinds of Agenda+ labels too)
15:55:01 <plh> https://www.w3.org/TR/fingerprinting-guidance/#mark-fingerprinting
15:55:37 <atsushi> plh: is there need from i18n to add section markers? (see email in horizontal review request mail list
15:55:54 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/tr-design/issues/162
15:55:55 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/tr-design/issues/162 -> Issue 162 standard way to mark fingerprinting surface vectors (by marcoscaceres)
15:55:59 <atsushi> addison: amazing tool to have, since we are putting items into note
15:56:03 <atsushi> ... so let us think about
15:57:08 <addison> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20250109T150000/
16:00:02 <atsushi> plh: if you want, please join process CG call, in any case, I will report back
16:02:37 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:02:37 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:03:03 <atsushi> r12a: safari released, and supports ruby position in charactor
16:03:18 <atsushi> ... bopomofo lines in one line, not separating tone marks...
16:05:28 <Najib> Najib has left #i18n
16:06:43 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/149
16:06:43 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/149 -> Pull Request 149 Address differences between DESIGN-PRINCIPLES and SPECDEV (by aphillips) [Agenda+] [Best Practice] [normative]
16:06:52 <atsushi> addison: welcome comments on above PR
16:07:36 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/09-i18n-minutes.html xfq
16:07:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/09-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:07:56 <addison> regrets+ JcK
16:07:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/09-i18n-minutes.html addison
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