14:59:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:59:25 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-irc
14:59:30 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
15:00:00 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:00:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:00:30 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan
15:01:23 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
15:01:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:01:45 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
15:01:58 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#January_08-09%2C_2024
15:02:15 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
15:02:33 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
15:04:08 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:04:55 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
15:05:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:06:51 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
15:07:16 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
15:07:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:08:20 <EgeKorkan> scribenick: EgeKorkan
15:09:31 <EgeKorkan> topic: Agenda Review
15:09:43 <EgeKorkan> ek: registry, queryaction issue, opc ua uri scheme
15:09:54 <EgeKorkan> topic: Minutes Review
15:10:07 <EgeKorkan> https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html
15:10:24 <kaz> s|https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html Dec-18|
15:10:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:11:03 <kaz> i|registry|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#January_08-09%2C_2024 Agenda for today|
15:11:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:11:12 <EgeKorkan> ek: any objections?
15:11:21 <EgeKorkan> ek: minutes are approved
15:11:59 <EgeKorkan> topic: OPC UA URI Scheme
15:12:08 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/eclipse-thingweb/node-wot/pull/1335#issuecomment-2577572278
15:12:35 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
15:13:19 <EgeKorkan> ek: it is specific to opcua but can be generalized
15:14:31 <EgeKorkan> ... opc ua spec does not prohibit special characters
15:14:33 <kaz> s/topic:/subtopic:/
15:14:42 <EgeKorkan> ... we get = ; " and so on
15:14:45 <kaz> i|OPC UA|topic: Binding Templates|
15:14:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:14:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:15:22 <EgeKorkan> ek: we can encode everything but it is not readable and not copy pastable
15:16:25 <cris> q+
15:17:18 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
15:17:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:17:29 <EgeKorkan> ek: sebastian brought the opinions from the opc ua wg with two options
15:17:41 <EgeKorkan> ... one is to define query params and the other is to use another term
15:17:46 <zkis> zkis has joined #wot-td
15:17:46 <dape> q+
15:17:52 <EgeKorkan> ... in both cases, " needs to be escaped
15:18:26 <EgeKorkan> ... the first one is annoying for copy pasting parameters from OPC UA tools and the second one is not compliant to our href design decisions
15:19:15 <kaz> s/we get = ; "/we get '=', ';', '"',/
15:19:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:19:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:19:33 <kaz> s/opcua/OPC UA/
15:19:39 <EgeKorkan> ca: I lean towards option 1 since it aligns with WoT more. It doesn't help opcua developers
15:19:43 <kaz> s/opc ua/OPC UA/
15:19:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:19:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:20:06 <EgeKorkan> ... it would be a browser tab open that you copy and encode
15:21:01 <luca_barbato> q+
15:21:06 <kaz> q+
15:21:27 <kaz> present+ Zoltan_Kis
15:21:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:21:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:22:16 <EgeKorkan> ... I value consistency
15:22:25 <cris> ack c
15:22:30 <EgeKorkan> ... it is like the MQTT discussion
15:22:41 <EgeKorkan> ... is the " necessary?
15:22:47 <EgeKorkan> ek: yes you need to send it over the wire
15:23:23 <kaz> s/the " /the '"' /
15:23:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:23:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:24:39 <EgeKorkan> dp: namespace can need url encoding too since it can contain `#` too
15:24:45 <kaz> s/'"'/'"' (double quotation quoted by two single quotations)/
15:24:48 <EgeKorkan> ... why are there multiple query parameters and why not everything is encoded?
15:24:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:24:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:25:18 <EgeKorkan> dp: you cannot know that it is encoded?
15:25:43 <kaz> s/(double quotation quoted by two single quotations)//
15:25:45 <EgeKorkan> ca: you can always put it into the decoder and get a decoded url
15:25:57 <kaz> s/'"'/`"`/g
15:25:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:25:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:26:07 <kaz> q?
15:26:26 <kaz> s/'='/`=`/
15:26:36 <kaz> s/';'/`;`/
15:26:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:26:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:27:05 <dape> ack dape
15:27:33 <EgeKorkan> lb: repeating cristiano, the element that is there is a URL. Everything that is specified for the url applies
15:29:14 <EgeKorkan> ... hopefully initial connection can remove some of the redundancy
15:29:17 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:29:19 <EgeKorkan> ack l
15:29:54 <EgeKorkan> kaz: the core is about URI in the end. We should ask TAG about this as well
15:31:45 <EgeKorkan> ek: how can we start the discussion with TAG
15:31:54 <EgeKorkan> kaz: also we should mention W3C WoT TF in the comment
15:31:56 <kaz> s/TAG/TAG?/
15:33:10 <kaz> s/comment/comment, because this is not our own issue but an issue on the ecripse-thingweb's node-wot repo
15:33:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:33:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:34:05 <kaz> ack k
15:34:29 <EgeKorkan> kaz: writing an issue that summarizes the problem would be good
15:34:35 <EgeKorkan> ek: ok will write it after the call
15:34:44 <EgeKorkan> topic: Binding Registry
15:36:01 <EgeKorkan> ek: please express your opinions on inclusiveness at the issue https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/393
15:36:56 <EgeKorkan> topic: Issue 2068
15:37:08 <EgeKorkan> ek: this came up in the scripting api but it actually applicable to more
15:37:20 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2068
15:38:14 <kaz> s/topic: Binding Registry/subtopic: Binding Registry/
15:38:28 <kaz> s/topic: Issue 2068/subtopic: Issue 2068/
15:38:39 <EgeKorkan> ek: cristiano proposes defining another term
15:38:47 <kaz> i/subtopic: Issue 2068/topic: Thing Description/
15:38:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:38:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:39:03 <luca_barbato> +q
15:39:15 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/tree/main/proposals/hypermedia-control-2
15:39:34 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2068|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/2068 wot-thing-description Issue 2068 - Specify the result of queryaction operation|
15:39:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:39:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:39:58 <cris> q+
15:40:05 <zkis> q+
15:40:16 <EgeKorkan> ek: in my proposal, I have also proposed new terms with input and output inside them
15:40:35 <EgeKorkan> ... however, all these proposals go towards TD 2.0 but we need a solution for TD 1.1 too, probably
15:41:29 <EgeKorkan> lb: it would make more sense to deal it in the scope of a topic like "relationships between affordances" or "manageable affordances"
15:41:41 <EgeKorkan> ... this is indeed a sore point
15:42:55 <EgeKorkan> ... so the main question would be is whether we want to add new terms like this or should we have relationships between affordances, like reading a property giving the query result
15:43:37 <luca_barbato> +q
15:43:46 <EgeKorkan> ack l
15:44:28 <EgeKorkan> ek: It is a bigger discussion indeed. We could have many such terms coming if we go this direction
15:45:15 <EgeKorkan> lb: we should review the what affordances really mean, like is an action a queue all the time
15:45:24 <EgeKorkan> ... what is the boundary between an action and a property
15:46:47 <EgeKorkan> ca: TDs can be used to describe AI agents. We need to figure out what to do right now
15:47:29 <EgeKorkan> ca: this is like a bug in the td 1.1. We seem to have forgotten to add a field like status here
15:48:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:48:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:48:29 <EgeKorkan> ... we can say we don't know the payload or use the profile
15:48:32 <kaz> s/like status/like 'status'/
15:48:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:48:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:49:09 <EgeKorkan> ek: additionalResponses can be used here but it is a bit of a hack
15:49:55 <EgeKorkan> zk: I am active in agentic workflows, like composable microservices. We can start with something simple
15:50:01 <kaz> q+
15:50:09 <cris> ack q
15:50:12 <cris> ack c
15:51:01 <EgeKorkan> ... the result of query is an object. So we can do multipel operations like invoking, canceling, querying
15:51:26 <dape> s/multipel/multiple
15:52:37 <EgeKorkan> ... I would not want to go for recursive mechanisms though
15:53:00 <cris> q+
15:56:52 <EgeKorkan> ek: we can look at https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/blob/037c8d686ad8c145dd4fe01c2123ad26eca0e185/data/input_2022/TD/Oracle/TDs/WoTWebThing%2BproblemDetails%2BactionStatus.td.jsonld#L24
15:57:05 <EgeKorkan> zk: we should define what use cases we are resolving with action affordances
15:57:11 <EgeKorkan> ... we should start simple
15:57:12 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
15:57:44 <EgeKorkan> kaz: Given the time left, we should clarify the pain points and the use cases
15:58:22 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
15:59:33 <EgeKorkan> ... and then we can find a solution
16:00:34 <EgeKorkan> zk: we should clarify what level of status is delivered to upper layers in the application
16:00:49 <EgeKorkan> ... so the semantic status and the protocol level status
16:01:21 <EgeKorkan> kaz: we need more time so let's discuss it next week too
16:01:22 <EgeKorkan> q?
16:01:25 <EgeKorkan> ack z
16:01:26 <EgeKorkan> ack k
16:01:33 <cris> I agree that we can discuss next time
16:01:37 <cris> :)
16:01:51 <kaz> i/I agree/ca: I agree/
16:02:00 <kaz> i/agree/scribenick: cris/
16:02:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:02:26 <EgeKorkan> ek: make sure to comment in the issue
16:02:26 <EgeKorkan> ek: AOB?
16:02:33 <kaz> i/make sure/scribenick: EgeKorkan/
16:02:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:02:41 <EgeKorkan> ek: adjourned
16:02:51 <kaz> s/ad/(none)/
16:03:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:03:32 <kaz> s/ca: I agree//
16:03:39 <kaz> s/I agree/ca: I agree/
16:03:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:03:55 <kaz> s/(none)journed/
16:04:09 <kaz> s/ek: /ek: adjourned/
16:04:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:04:30 <kaz> i/adjourned/(none)/
16:04:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:04:39 <kaz> s/:)//
16:04:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
18:11:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td
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