13:50:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
13:50:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc
13:50:30 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:50:31 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ
13:50:35 <JJ> Zakim, this is MATF January 8, 2025
13:50:35 <Zakim> got it, JJ
13:50:42 <JJ> Meeting: MATF January 8, 2025
13:50:46 <JJ> chair+
13:50:58 <JJ> agenda+ 2025 update
13:51:03 <JJ> agenda+ 1.4.10 Reflow
13:51:07 <JJ> agenda+ 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus
13:51:12 <JJ> agenda+ 2.4.3 Focus Order
13:51:32 <JJ> Zakim, agenda?
13:51:32 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
13:51:33 <Zakim> 1. 2025 update [from JJ]
13:51:33 <Zakim> 2. 1.4.10 Reflow [from JJ]
13:51:33 <Zakim> 3. 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus [from JJ]
13:51:33 <Zakim> 4. 2.4.3 Focus Order [from JJ]
13:51:45 <JJ> regrets+ JonGibbins
13:51:52 <JJ> regrets+ KarlaRubiano
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13:58:17 <AlainVagner> AlainVagner has joined #matf
14:00:30 <Megan> Megan has joined #matf
14:00:59 <AlainVagner> present+
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14:01:45 <julianmka> present+
14:02:08 <jeroen> present+
14:02:14 <Illai> present+
14:02:34 <Joe_Humbert> present+
14:03:34 <Tim> present+
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14:03:49 <Carolina> present+
14:03:56 <RacheleD> present+
14:05:10 <JJ> Move to next agendum
14:05:10 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- 2025 update -- taken up [from JJ]
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14:10:17 <Aash> Aash has joined #matf
14:10:23 <Aash> present+
14:13:48 <julianmka> JJ: Recaps 2024 activities: SC discussed and guidance drafted; Group Note title determined; editor's draft published. In 2025, more SCs to discuss/determine guidance for. Currrently revising the working statement for approval by AGWG.
14:15:36 <julianmka> q+
14:15:42 <JJ> ack julianmka
14:17:09 <julianmka> JJ: Any other reflections or thoughts about what we've done so far?
14:18:57 <julianmka> julianmka: We need to divide and conquer the remaining SCs and other related issues outside of meetings, not just during.
14:19:11 <JJ> Move to next agendum
14:19:11 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- 1.4.10 Reflow -- taken up [from JJ]
14:23:37 <julianmka> JJ: Recaps discussion on 1.4.10 to date (Issue #4 at Github).
14:25:26 <julianmka> ...WCAG2ICT says that 1.4.10 applies to non-web, replacing "web content" with "content" and adding some notes.
14:25:42 <Illai> +q
14:25:48 <JJ> ack Illai
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14:26:32 <JJ> 1.4.10 Understanding draft: https://deploy-preview-4055--wcag2.netlify.app/understanding/reflow
14:26:41 <julianmka> Illai: Mobile has limited "real estate" so our guidance should be a bit more tolerant in light of that.
14:28:10 <Jamie> Jamie has joined #matf
14:28:42 <Jamie> present+
14:29:29 <julianmka> JJ: Shared Understanding draft linked previously. It gives an example of a horizontal scrolling area that would meet 1.4.10 provided the content of each panel in the scrolling area fits within 320px. Still very web based; apps are different with small mobile hardware.
14:29:50 <Jamie> q+
14:30:12 <JJ> ack Jamie
14:32:10 <julianmka> Jamie: Should consider identifying if the pixel widths specified assume that that content is at 100% zoom. This question has come up before in the workplace.
14:38:15 <julianmka> JJ: Testing this is something we need to address. To address Jamie's question in Github, my understanding of orientation is just to check if the content rotates, nothing else.
14:38:23 <Joe_Humbert> +q
14:38:52 <Joe_Humbert> -q
14:40:24 <julianmka> JJ: Brings up Detlev's comment linked in another repository, which will refer to MATF's decision.
14:40:26 <JJ> ACTION: Make decision about the viewport requirements
14:41:01 <JJ> ACTION: Define testing steps for 1.4.10
14:42:28 <JJ> ACTION: Investigate how internationalization relates to 1.4.10
14:43:06 <JJ> Move to next agendum
14:43:06 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus -- taken up [from JJ]
14:50:20 <JJ> ACTION: Research usage of a mouse on Android / iOS
14:50:23 <julianmka> JJ: Recaps discussion until now on 1.4.13. (Github issue #6). Initially, we thought this SC would have small variation from WCAG2ICT but after discussion, moved it to medium variation instead because of additional research.
14:50:35 <JJ> ACTION: Research how tooltips behave on mobile web with touch input
14:50:46 <Aash> q+
14:50:55 <julianmka> q+
14:50:58 <JJ> ACTION: Research how assistive touch works on mobile devices
14:51:02 <JJ> ack Aash
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14:52:00 <JJ> ack julianmka
14:52:03 <JJ> q+ Aash
14:53:01 <julianmka> julianmka: Tooltips on the web could mean almost anything, what scope does that research have?
14:53:15 <julianmka> JJ: Native web tooltips, like the title attribute.
14:53:16 <AlainVagner> could we refer to the tooltip pattern of the APG? https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/tooltip/
14:54:04 <julianmka> JJ: also the abbreviation tag shows a tooltip on desktop web
14:54:09 <Joe_Humbert> +1 AlainVagner in addition to title attribute
14:55:09 <AlainVagner> seems to be still a work in progress, sorry about this
14:55:54 <Illai> +q
14:57:51 <JJ> ack Illai
14:58:06 <JJ> ack Aash
14:58:08 <JJ> q+ Illai
14:58:27 <JJ> Sample page for tooltips: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Global_attributes/title and https://inclusive-components.design/tooltips-toggletips/
14:58:42 <Joe_Humbert> mdn example doesn't load on my chrome android :-(
14:58:56 <JJ> ack Illai
14:58:59 <JJ> close the queue
14:58:59 <julianmka> Aash: Links with tooltips don't work on mobile, but buttons with hover effects generally work.
14:59:03 <JJ> Zakim, close the queue
14:59:03 <Zakim> ok, JJ, the speaker queue is closed
14:59:52 <julianmka> Illai: Looking at Heydon Pickering's example, there is no definition of "tooltip", or even more widely on the web. Perhaps we should define what it means in the scope of native mobile.
15:00:20 <JJ> ACTION: The phrase "tooltip" needs to be defined
15:13:52 <JJ> rrsagent, make minutes
15:13:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-minutes.html JJ
15:24:25 <JJ> rrsagent, bye
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-actions.rdf :
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Make decision about the viewport requirements [1]
15:24:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-40-26
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Define testing steps for 1.4.10 [2]
15:24:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-41-01
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Investigate how internationalization relates to 1.4.10 [3]
15:24:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-42-28
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Research usage of a mouse on Android / iOS [4]
15:24:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-50-20
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Research how tooltips behave on mobile web with touch input [5]
15:24:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-50-35
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Research how assistive touch works on mobile devices [6]
15:24:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-50-58
15:24:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: The phrase "tooltip" needs to be defined [7]
15:24:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T15-00-20
15:24:29 <JJ> zakim, bye
15:24:29 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AlainVagner, julianmka, jeroen, Illai, Joe_Humbert, Tim, Carolina, RacheleD, Aash, Jamie
15:24:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #matf