IRC log of matf on 2025-01-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:50:26 [RRSAgent]

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13:50:30 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc

13:50:30 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

13:50:31 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ

13:50:35 [JJ]

Zakim, this is MATF January 8, 2025

13:50:35 [Zakim]

got it, JJ

13:50:42 [JJ]

Meeting: MATF January 8, 2025

13:50:46 [JJ]

chair+

13:50:58 [JJ]

agenda+ 2025 update

13:51:03 [JJ]

agenda+ 1.4.10 Reflow

13:51:07 [JJ]

agenda+ 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus

13:51:12 [JJ]

agenda+ 2.4.3 Focus Order

13:51:32 [JJ]

Zakim, agenda?

13:51:32 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

13:51:33 [Zakim]

1. 2025 update [from JJ]

13:51:33 [Zakim]

2. 1.4.10 Reflow [from JJ]

13:51:33 [Zakim]

3. 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus [from JJ]

13:51:33 [Zakim]

4. 2.4.3 Focus Order [from JJ]

13:51:45 [JJ]

regrets+ JonGibbins

13:51:52 [JJ]

regrets+ KarlaRubiano

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13:58:17 [AlainVagner]

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14:00:59 [AlainVagner]

present+

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14:01:45 [julianmka]

present+

14:02:08 [jeroen]

present+

14:02:14 [Illai]

present+

14:02:34 [Joe_Humbert]

present+

14:03:34 [Tim]

present+

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14:03:49 [Carolina]

present+

14:03:56 [RacheleD]

present+

14:05:10 [JJ]

Move to next agendum

14:05:10 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- 2025 update -- taken up [from JJ]

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14:10:17 [Aash]

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14:10:23 [Aash]

present+

14:13:48 [julianmka]

JJ: Recaps 2024 activities: SC discussed and guidance drafted; Group Note title determined; editor's draft published. In 2025, more SCs to discuss/determine guidance for. Currrently revising the working statement for approval by AGWG.

14:15:36 [julianmka]

q+

14:15:42 [JJ]

ack julianmka

14:17:09 [julianmka]

JJ: Any other reflections or thoughts about what we've done so far?

14:18:57 [julianmka]

julianmka: We need to divide and conquer the remaining SCs and other related issues outside of meetings, not just during.

14:19:11 [JJ]

Move to next agendum

14:19:11 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- 1.4.10 Reflow -- taken up [from JJ]

14:23:37 [julianmka]

JJ: Recaps discussion on 1.4.10 to date (Issue #4 at Github).

14:25:26 [julianmka]

...WCAG2ICT says that 1.4.10 applies to non-web, replacing "web content" with "content" and adding some notes.

14:25:42 [Illai]

+q

14:25:48 [JJ]

ack Illai

14:26:04 [Aash]

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14:26:32 [JJ]

1.4.10 Understanding draft: https://deploy-preview-4055--wcag2.netlify.app/understanding/reflow

14:26:41 [julianmka]

Illai: Mobile has limited "real estate" so our guidance should be a bit more tolerant in light of that.

14:28:10 [Jamie]

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14:28:42 [Jamie]

present+

14:29:29 [julianmka]

JJ: Shared Understanding draft linked previously. It gives an example of a horizontal scrolling area that would meet 1.4.10 provided the content of each panel in the scrolling area fits within 320px. Still very web based; apps are different with small mobile hardware.

14:29:50 [Jamie]

q+

14:30:12 [JJ]

ack Jamie

14:32:10 [julianmka]

Jamie: Should consider identifying if the pixel widths specified assume that that content is at 100% zoom. This question has come up before in the workplace.

14:38:15 [julianmka]

JJ: Testing this is something we need to address. To address Jamie's question in Github, my understanding of orientation is just to check if the content rotates, nothing else.

14:38:23 [Joe_Humbert]

+q

14:38:52 [Joe_Humbert]

-q

14:40:24 [julianmka]

JJ: Brings up Detlev's comment linked in another repository, which will refer to MATF's decision.

14:40:26 [JJ]

ACTION: Make decision about the viewport requirements

14:41:01 [JJ]

ACTION: Define testing steps for 1.4.10

14:42:28 [JJ]

ACTION: Investigate how internationalization relates to 1.4.10

14:43:06 [JJ]

Move to next agendum

14:43:06 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- 1.4.13 Content on Hover or Focus -- taken up [from JJ]

14:50:20 [JJ]

ACTION: Research usage of a mouse on Android / iOS

14:50:23 [julianmka]

JJ: Recaps discussion until now on 1.4.13. (Github issue #6). Initially, we thought this SC would have small variation from WCAG2ICT but after discussion, moved it to medium variation instead because of additional research.

14:50:35 [JJ]

ACTION: Research how tooltips behave on mobile web with touch input

14:50:46 [Aash]

q+

14:50:55 [julianmka]

q+

14:50:58 [JJ]

ACTION: Research how assistive touch works on mobile devices

14:51:02 [JJ]

ack Aash

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14:52:00 [JJ]

ack julianmka

14:52:03 [JJ]

q+ Aash

14:53:01 [julianmka]

julianmka: Tooltips on the web could mean almost anything, what scope does that research have?

14:53:15 [julianmka]

JJ: Native web tooltips, like the title attribute.

14:53:16 [AlainVagner]

could we refer to the tooltip pattern of the APG? https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/tooltip/

14:54:04 [julianmka]

JJ: also the abbreviation tag shows a tooltip on desktop web

14:54:09 [Joe_Humbert]

+1 AlainVagner in addition to title attribute

14:55:09 [AlainVagner]

seems to be still a work in progress, sorry about this

14:55:54 [Illai]

+q

14:57:51 [JJ]

ack Illai

14:58:06 [JJ]

ack Aash

14:58:08 [JJ]

q+ Illai

14:58:27 [JJ]

Sample page for tooltips: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Global_attributes/title and https://inclusive-components.design/tooltips-toggletips/

14:58:42 [Joe_Humbert]

mdn example doesn't load on my chrome android :-(

14:58:56 [JJ]

ack Illai

14:58:59 [JJ]

close the queue

14:58:59 [julianmka]

Aash: Links with tooltips don't work on mobile, but buttons with hover effects generally work.

14:59:03 [JJ]

Zakim, close the queue

14:59:03 [Zakim]

ok, JJ, the speaker queue is closed

14:59:52 [julianmka]

Illai: Looking at Heydon Pickering's example, there is no definition of "tooltip", or even more widely on the web. Perhaps we should define what it means in the scope of native mobile.

15:00:20 [JJ]

ACTION: The phrase "tooltip" needs to be defined

15:13:52 [JJ]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:13:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-minutes.html JJ

15:24:25 [JJ]

rrsagent, bye

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-actions.rdf :

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Make decision about the viewport requirements [1]

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-40-26

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Define testing steps for 1.4.10 [2]

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-41-01

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Investigate how internationalization relates to 1.4.10 [3]

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-42-28

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Research usage of a mouse on Android / iOS [4]

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-50-20

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Research how tooltips behave on mobile web with touch input [5]

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-50-35

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Research how assistive touch works on mobile devices [6]

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T14-50-58

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: The phrase "tooltip" needs to be defined [7]

15:24:25 [RRSAgent]

recorded in https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-matf-irc#T15-00-20

15:24:29 [JJ]

zakim, bye

15:24:29 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been AlainVagner, julianmka, jeroen, Illai, Joe_Humbert, Tim, Carolina, RacheleD, Aash, Jamie

15:24:29 [Zakim]

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