15:55:14 RRSAgent has joined #aria-editors 15:55:19 logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-aria-editors-irc 15:55:37 Zakim has joined #aria-editors 15:55:47 zakim, clear agenda 15:55:47 agenda cleared 15:56:27 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a608332-5111-4e25-bea9-e9c02468e2a6/20250108T120000/ 15:56:27 clear agenda 15:56:27 agenda+ [new] -> aria #1862 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1862 Remove aria-expanded from listbox [deprecation section in spec] 15:56:27 agenda+ [new] [peter] [aria#2230](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2230 15:56:27 agenda+ [urgent?] [james] -> aria#2226 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2226 remove spec specific css or inline it 15:56:27 agenda+ [wrap up?] [scott] -> aria #2228 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2228 : re-direct "moved" PRs after merge (html-aam left with 1 PRs) 15:56:27 agenda+ [updates?] [daniel] -> aria#2374 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2374 Enabling suggestions to update pull request branches 15:56:31 agenda+ [new-ish] -> core-aam#238 https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/238 Consider listing known downstream AT support in AAMs 15:56:34 agenda+ [rahim] -> aria #2287 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2287 : Add ReSpec aliasing clarity in README.me's "Editorial Documentation" section 15:56:37 agenda+ [peter] -> aria #2231 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2231 : turn on automatic prettier formatting for ARIA spec 15:56:41 agenda+ [daniel] -> aria #2242 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2242 : Netlify to replace pr-review 15:56:44 agenda+ [james] -> aria PR #2136 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2136 Remove abbr elements 15:56:47 agenda+ [peter] aria-common #104 & PR #106: modernizing aria.js 15:56:49 agenda+ [james] spec markup for advice for AT 15:58:34 zakim, start meeting 15:58:34 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:58:36 Meeting: ARIA Editors 17:06:54 spectranaut_ has joined #aria-editors 17:06:59 jamesn has joined #aria-editors 17:07:31 agenda? 17:11:51 pkra has joined #aria-editors 17:11:56 present+ 17:13:18 scribe+ 17:13:45 zakim, take up item 5 17:13:45 agendum 5 -- [updates?] [daniel] -> aria#2374 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2374 Enabling suggestions to update pull request branches -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:14:32 spectranaut_: decision is to do this. But rebase has to be done manually via the button; only merging main is possible automatically. 17:15:28 jamesn: could you recap what editors have to do ? 17:15:46 dmontalvo: whenever the base branch is updated, the PR will show the "update branch" button. 17:15:56 ... then you can merge the base branch or rebase via the UI. 17:16:15 jamesn: and we'll have a procedure to make sure we do that. 17:16:26 dmontalvo: we should have something in the doc to say what we expect to happen. 17:17:12 pkra: doesn't squashing mean it doesn't matter whether we merge or rebase? 17:17:26 dmontalvo: good point. we can always disable it again if we experience issues with this process. 17:17:54 pkra: close via docs PR? 17:18:01 dmontalvo: yes, I'll take it on. 17:18:06 zakim, next item 17:18:06 agendum 1 -- [new] -> aria #1862 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1862 Remove aria-expanded from listbox -- taken up [from deprecation section in spec] 17:19:21 pkra: I was wrong about this being new but it resurfaced on my end going through the labeled issues. 17:19:54 ... should we have a separate issue? 17:20:02 spectranaut_: probably. it's been a long time. 17:20:16 pkra: there was the recent issue on deprecation notices for ARIA 1.2 17:20:33 jamesn: I feel like we don't need to do anything about this. 17:20:41 ... if we remove or add normative guidance. 17:20:51 ... this is just "no longer allowed on this". 17:21:29 ... we only ever did deprecation for the global properties. That seemed like an exception. 17:21:36 spectranaut_: did we not decide so in that meeting? 17:21:47 pkra: I don't recall. I thought it's just to discuss. 17:21:52 jamesn: what do we benefit from this? 17:22:40 spectranaut_: oh, wilco specifically asked for deprecation instead of removal. 17:23:06 jamesn: but that holds for virtually all properties that don't have an effect. 17:23:15 spectranaut_: so we explicitly response to say we don't? 17:23:34 jamesn: I think so. Otherwise we will limit ourselves wth future changes. 17:24:14 ... cf. aria-grabbed/dropped. We didn't have another use case for them. But this never had a use. It's just an error. 17:24:44 dmontalvo: if we say no, we should explain why. 17:24:48 ... and this sounds reasonable to me. 17:25:05 jamesn: yes, we should have good reasons why we deprecate something or not. We only ever did that for the globals. 17:25:24 scotto: the globals didn't do anything, really. 17:25:39 jamesn: right, mostly unexpected role presentational which wasn't great. 17:26:18 ... the other reason we deprecated them was so UAs may still expose them. 17:26:40 ... but this change seems fine in this respect. 17:27:52 pkra: jamesn suggestion seems fine to me. But I don't have strong feelings. 17:28:13 spectranaut_: can you write a comment? 17:31:57 ... we seem to be in agreement. What are next steps? 17:32:04 jamens: I'll write a comment. 17:32:25 pkra: maybe add something to the process docs on deprecation. 17:32:36 spectranaut_: I'll add it to the agenda for this week so we can gather input from the wider group. 17:33:15 zakim, next item 17:33:15 agendum 2 -- [new] [peter] [aria#2230](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2230 -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:36:31 pkra: basically, what I wrote in the issue. we can't have the history but we don't need it. I made a PR for the aria.js refactor. 17:36:47 ... the old repo still pushes to css-aam and math-aria. Not sure we want that if we stop maintaining common. 17:36:58 ... I'l llook into ESLint later. 17:37:01 zakim, next item 17:37:01 agendum 3 -- [urgent?] [james] -> aria#2226 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2226 remove spec specific css or inline it -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:38:36 pkra: just bringing this up after we had 3 duplicats. 17:38:40 ... any takers. 17:39:17 ... I'll try to get to it. 17:39:33 zakim, next item 17:39:33 agendum 4 -- [wrap up?] [scott] -> aria #2228 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2228 : re-direct "moved" PRs after merge (html-aam left with 1 PRs) -- taken up [from agendabot] 17:41:37 spectranaut_: we talked about it at the beginning of the meeting. I'll get to it. 17:41:40 zakim, close this item 17:41:40 agendum 4 closed 17:41:41 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:41:41 6. [new-ish] -> core-aam#238 https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/238 Consider listing known downstream AT support in AAMs [from agendabot] 17:42:04 spectranaut_: random: we have a lot of editorial issues. Should we do another hackathon? F2F or remote? 17:42:10 pkra: I'm all in for remote. 17:42:16 jamesn: local only bay area. 17:42:39 spectranaut_: F2F is probably harder. 17:42:55 jamesn: probably focus on TPAC since it's in Kobe. 17:43:49 spectranaut_: jan, feb, march? 17:44:00 jamesn: csun is in march. 17:44:22 spectranaut_: ok I'll suggest a few times. 17:44:38 zakim, agenda 17:44:38 I don't understand 'agenda', pkra 17:44:44 zakim, agenda? 17:44:44 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda: 17:44:44 agenda? 17:44:45 6. [new-ish] -> core-aam#238 https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/238 Consider listing known downstream AT support in AAMs [from agendabot] 17:44:45 7. [rahim] -> aria #2287 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2287 : Add ReSpec aliasing clarity in README.me's "Editorial Documentation" section [from agendabot] 17:44:45 8. [peter] -> aria #2231 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2231 : turn on automatic prettier formatting for ARIA spec [from agendabot] 17:44:48 9. [daniel] -> aria #2242 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2242 : Netlify to replace pr-review [from agendabot] 17:44:48 10. [james] -> aria PR #2136 https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2136 Remove abbr elements [from agendabot] 17:44:48 11. [peter] aria-common #104 & PR #106: modernizing aria.js [from agendabot] 17:44:48 12. [james] spec markup for advice for AT [from agendabot] 17:45:16 scotto: random topic aria-in-html. Should it move to the monorepo? 17:45:29 jamesn: will it ever have dependencies where we'll want a single PR? 17:45:39 scotto: I suspect probably not 17:45:49 jamesn: then I'd prefer separate. 17:46:28 scotto: right. I wouldn't want PRs being held up because I'm waiting for something. 17:46:39 jamesn: makes sense. 17:47:24 scotto: ok. on a related note. aria-in-html has these strange purple boxes. Those came from web apps group requiring these styles for review. 17:47:49 ... however, those styles are clunky for inline changes. 17:47:49 q+ 17:48:11 ... I kept doing this because that was WAWG process. Could we remove them now? 17:49:24 dmontalvo: we can update the spec. Once in our charter period we will have to do a snapshot. Then we will have to document changes. I don't think the CSS is accessible. We need a comprehensive changelog though. 17:49:58 scotto: right. I've made sure we have a good changelog. 17:50:34 ... I pushed back against an automated changelog with WAWG. I'm rather very explicit about it. 17:50:37 dmontalvo: +1 17:51:02 scotto: but removing the styles would be nice. 17:51:22 jamesn: do you want to remove the class or the associated styles? 17:51:37 scotto: good point. I don I an modify the styles. 17:52:06 ... having a way to toggle it on may be useful but I'm not sure. 17:52:39 jamesn: activating some styles might be useful. 17:53:01 scotto: ok. On a related note: do we have to do that with ARIA once it's a living standard. 17:53:07 jamesn: I don't think so. 17:53:32 ... the styles are not accessible and something semantic would just be noisy. 17:53:39 scotto: yes, especially inline. 17:54:12 jamesn: we can bring that back to W3C. 17:54:20 dmontalvo: I think changelog should be the answer to that. 17:54:44 ... but we'll have to see 17:56:03 ack me 17:56:09 zakim, end meeting 17:56:09 As of this point the attendees have been pkra 17:56:10 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 17:56:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-aria-editors-minutes.html Zakim 17:56:19 I am happy to have been of service, pkra; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 17:56:19 Zakim has left #aria-editors 17:58:06 Chair: pkra 17:58:09 rrsagent, make minutes 17:58:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-aria-editors-minutes.html dmontalvo 18:00:21 present+ JamesN, Valerie, Scott, Daniel 18:00:22 rrsagent, make minutes 18:00:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/08-aria-editors-minutes.html dmontalvo