14:58:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #me
14:58:26 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-irc
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15:01:05 <cpn> Chair: Chris
15:01:15 <cpn> Meeting: MEIG monthly meeting
15:01:19 <kaz> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2024Dec/0001.html
15:02:06 <igarashi> present+
15:02:09 <cpn> Present: Bernd_Czelhan, Chris_Needham, Kazuyuki_Ashimura, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Hisayuki_Ohmata, Louay_Bassbouss, Ryo_Yasuoka
15:02:18 <cpn> Chair: Chris, Igarashi
15:02:56 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:02:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:03:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
15:03:36 <kaz> present+ Francois_Daoust
15:04:56 <cpn> present+ Rob_Smith
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15:05:57 <cpn> scribe+ cpn
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15:06:38 <kaz> topic: Agenda
15:06:41 <Louay> Louay has joined #me
15:06:54 <Louay> present+ Louay_Bassbouss
15:06:57 <kaz> cpn: (summarizes the agenda)
15:07:14 <kaz> ... Sync on the Web CG, SVTA MSE issue review
15:07:25 <kaz> ... anything else for today?
15:07:30 <kaz> (none)
15:07:55 <kaz> topic: Sync on th Web CG
15:07:59 <kaz> s/th /the /
15:08:37 <kaz> cpn: there was a breakout session during TPAC hosted by Kensaku Komatsu on media synchronization over QUIC
15:08:46 <kaz> ... low latency media sync
15:09:23 <kaz> i|summa|-> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/images/3/37/2025-01-07-W3C-MEIG.pdf slides|
15:09:44 <kaz> i|there|[slide 3]|
15:09:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minute
15:09:48 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minute', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:09:54 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft minute//
15:09:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:09:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
15:10:07 <kaz> ... a CG has been created
15:10:17 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/community/sync-on-the-web/ Sync on the Web CG
15:10:25 <kaz> cpn: planning to participate in the CG
15:11:13 <kaz> ... not sure about the group's plan yet at the moment, but once they've got settled, can get more information
15:11:39 <kaz> topic: MSE issues recap
15:11:44 <kaz> [slide 4]
15:11:58 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/12/10-me-minutes.html Dec-10 minutes
15:12:26 <kaz> cpn: continue discussion about MSE issues discussed on Dec 10
15:12:32 <kaz> subtopic: Buffer capacity
15:12:39 <kaz> [slide 5]
15:12:55 <kaz> cpn: (revisits the topic around buffer capacity)
15:13:19 <kaz> ... related to the MSE introspection API
15:13:32 <kaz> ... several feature request proposals
15:13:57 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/35 Issue 35 - Report buffer changes in update events
15:14:21 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/40 Issue 40 - Needs event to notify when sourceBuffer needs more data
15:14:48 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/172 Issue 172 - Consider adding API for app to know how much room is left in the SourceBuffer
15:15:16 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/259 Issue 259 - Consider adding support for apps to get metadata about what is currently buffered
15:15:40 <kaz> -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBSu9x-z8gHwh0R_0Py7N8OuRz9QpNAld9AvQt8NSpY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.1wolj05z6ipg MSE SourceBuffer Introspection Proposal
15:15:57 <kaz> cpn: we'd like to see solutions
15:16:17 <kaz> ... would suggest we use the Issue 172 for that purpose
15:16:28 <kaz> ... but we should also see the other related issues
15:16:56 <kaz> ... then Managed MediaSource bufferedchange events
15:17:06 <kaz> ... would be also helpful
15:17:11 <kaz> ... another point raised is
15:17:25 <kaz> ... requiring web apps to append mdat box structures
15:17:35 <dsilhavy> dsilhavy has joined #me
15:17:57 <kaz> ... some implementations are more restricted
15:18:03 <RobSmith> RobSmith has joined #me
15:18:07 <dsilhavy> present+ Daniel_Silhavy
15:18:12 <kaz> ... not sure if we have this within the existing test suite
15:18:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:18:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
15:18:43 <kaz> ... might be useful to have guide for implementations
15:18:54 <kaz> ... for constrained devices
15:19:05 <kaz> q?
15:19:52 <kaz> ds: (gives comments)
15:20:09 <kaz> ... all the legacy devices
15:20:32 <kaz> ... don't need to import the mdat box structures
15:20:50 <kaz> cpn: try to identify the device's capability
15:21:23 <kaz> ds: thinking to add some buffer to improve the performance
15:22:06 <kaz> lb: we're talking about two different test runners
15:22:13 <kaz> ... we can have some test caes
15:22:20 <kaz> ... to see the implementations
15:22:40 <kaz> ...also prepared contents
15:23:14 <kaz> ds: by position the box is closed
15:23:35 <kaz> ... don't think we need a new test case
15:23:43 <kaz> lb: need a piece of information
15:24:20 <kaz> fd: not sure if the box parsing is equivalent
15:24:32 <kaz> ... maybe some test case to be added
15:24:48 <kaz> cpn: suggesting a test case for the Web platform?
15:24:49 <kaz> fd: yeah
15:24:56 <kaz> cpn: would make sense
15:25:11 <kaz> lb: the question is always about the API
15:25:35 <kaz> ... requires additional observation
15:25:45 <kaz> ... in order to validate the data
15:25:59 <kaz> ... the question is how to streamline the tests
15:26:13 <kaz> ... also where to contribute
15:26:25 <kaz> cpn: yeah, observation framework is a question
15:26:37 <kaz> subtopic: Box parsing
15:26:42 <kaz> [slide 6]
15:26:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:26:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
15:26:55 <kaz> cpn: next is box parsing
15:27:24 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/189 Issue 189 - Add Support for Media-Encoded Events
15:27:43 <kaz> cpn: issue 189 adds support for media-encoded events
15:28:03 <kaz> ... particular use case there
15:28:14 <kaz> ... API proposal for DataCue
15:28:41 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-timed-events/ Requirements for Media Timed Events Note
15:29:04 <kaz> -> https://github.com/WICG/datacue/blob/main/explainer.md DataCue proposal
15:29:39 <kaz> -> https://wicg.github.io/datacue/ Draft DataCue API spec by WICG
15:30:00 <kaz> cpn: very happy to support people who would like to work on that
15:30:18 <kaz> ... think we mentioned this during TPAC
15:30:26 <kaz> ... adding subtitles and captions in MSE
15:30:43 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/26-mediawg-minutes.html#t07 TPAC 2024 discussion
15:31:21 <kaz> i|summarizes the agenda|scribenick: kaz|
15:31:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:31:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
15:31:56 <kaz> cpn: questions about use case-specific APIs
15:32:05 <kaz> ... for box parsing
15:32:16 <kaz> ... there was a question around performance
15:32:22 <kaz> ... about container parsing
15:32:55 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/webcodecs/issues/24 webcodecs Issue 24 - API for containers?
15:33:20 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-and-entertainment/issues/108 MEIG Issue 108 - Media Containers API
15:33:44 <kaz> cpn: would be better to have native APIs rather than JavaScript
15:34:12 <kaz> ... then WebCodecs and Canvas based player
15:34:39 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/webcodecs/issues/41 webcodecs Issue 41 - Support for content protection
15:35:03 <kaz> cpn: buffering and rendering for delivering the data
15:35:24 <kaz> ... to look at use cases again
15:35:36 <kaz> ... e.g., timed metadata
15:36:23 <kaz> ... need more investigation
15:36:35 <kaz> ds: we have cases and workaround
15:36:59 <kaz> ... just requirement for people's writing content
15:37:10 <kaz> cpn: is this a particular one for starting?
15:37:34 <kaz> ... or move boxes in general
15:37:56 <kaz> ... this question comes back to the performance question
15:38:43 <kaz> rs: to follow up the generic metadata discussion
15:38:59 <kaz> ... found myself moving more generic metadata aspect
15:39:15 <kaz> ... exposing the type filtering the design of the metadata
15:39:26 <kaz> ... what you're interested in
15:39:48 <kaz> ... the other problem is recently used datacue
15:39:56 <kaz> ... specifically identify the timed text
15:40:30 <kaz> ... rendering the timed text which is not relevant any more
15:40:46 <kaz> ... it's more than parsing efficiency
15:41:06 <kaz> ... I have the way I'm approaching
15:41:20 <kaz> ... WebVTT aimed at spatial data
15:42:10 <kaz> cpn: you're carrying the information using WebVTT
15:42:22 <kaz> rs: yes, specifically, timed location
15:42:40 <kaz> ... there are a number of use cases
15:42:56 <kaz> ... e.g., monitoring collisions of vehicles
15:43:14 <kaz> ... the scope of this is growing it quickly and handle metadata for specific use case
15:43:29 <kaz> ... would be accessed by web apps
15:43:38 <kaz> cpn: what kind of scope do you have?
15:43:54 <kaz> ... this is an important capability, though
15:44:03 <kaz> rs: looking at that
15:44:36 <kaz> ... main focus is aimed at harmonizing multiple existing capabilities
15:44:57 <kaz> ... in campuses
15:45:11 <kaz> ... different levels of details from various scales
15:45:22 <kaz> ... applications to online maps
15:45:44 <kaz> ... aiming to do trying to harmonize and utilize the resources
15:45:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:46:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
15:46:07 <kaz> ... can provide some link
15:46:11 <kaz> cpn: would be helpful
15:46:46 <kaz> ... you're proposal might be simpler
15:47:08 <kaz> ... perhaps decoupling what we're proposing could be more productive
15:47:21 <kaz> ... let's follow up that
15:47:44 <kaz> subtopic: Codec information
15:47:49 <kaz> [slide 7]
15:48:07 <kaz> cpn: some more query API, e.g., codec information
15:48:21 <kaz> ... related to MSI introspection API
15:48:36 <RobSmith> OGC Testbed-20 GIMI aims: https://portal.ogc.org/files/108074#GIMI
15:48:41 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/259 Issue 259 - Consider adding support for apps to get metadata about what is currently buffered
15:48:55 <kaz> cpn: bundled issues there
15:49:09 <kaz> ... related to buffer capacity and introspection capacity
15:49:28 <kaz> subtopic: Dynamic addition/removal of Source Buffers
15:49:37 <kaz> [slide 8]
15:50:26 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/160 Issue 160 - Support playback through unbuffered ranges, and allow app to provide buffered gap tolerance
15:50:36 <kaz> cpn: not sure if that covers all the issue around this
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15:51:14 <kaz> ... part of the API but not necessarily implemented
15:51:23 <kaz> ds: one use case in my mind
15:51:36 <kaz> ... sometimes multiple periods there
15:51:58 <kaz> ... still need initial one to keep the playback
15:52:25 <kaz> ... play audio and then video next
15:52:45 <kaz> ... could fill in dummy data
15:52:57 <kaz> ... then continue to play back
15:54:57 <kaz> s|-> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/images/3/37/2025-01-07-W3C-MEIG.pdf slides|slideset: https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/images/3/37/2025-01-07-W3C-MEIG.pdf|
15:55:14 <kaz> cpn: media over QUICk vs DASH
15:55:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:55:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
15:55:49 <kaz> ... continuing DASH playback
15:56:14 <kaz> ... not sure if there is any written-down use case about multi-period
15:56:40 <kaz> ds: try to create an issue
15:56:43 <kaz> cpn: please do
15:57:07 <kaz> ... something written down in the MSE issue tracker
15:57:16 <kaz> subtopic: Multiple Source Buffers
15:57:20 <kaz> [slide 9]
15:57:44 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/media-source/issues/357 Issue 357 - Proposal: Have a detachable MediaSource object
15:57:57 <kaz> cpn: similarly, not sure the use case is covered
15:58:07 <kaz> ds: segments might be overlapped
15:58:36 <kaz> cpn: (goes through Issue 357)
15:59:09 <kaz> ... detach a MediaSource from a media element
15:59:26 <kaz> s/element/element temporarily/
15:59:39 <kaz> q+
16:00:09 <kaz> ... maybe a new Issue is needed for this point
16:00:32 <kaz> ... didn't see another issue in the MSE repo around your use case
16:00:48 <cpn> ack kaz
16:01:06 <cpn> Kaz: Next steps? Create issues or comments on the existing issues is a key question
16:01:17 <kaz> i/Next/scribenick: cpn/
16:02:20 <cpn> ... We can talk about additional issues next time
16:03:01 <kaz> q-
16:03:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
16:03:41 <kaz> cpn: would like to talk with Daniel about that
16:04:09 <kaz> ... next meeting will be held on Feb 4
16:04:15 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:04:22 <kaz> i/would like/scribenick: kaz
16:04:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2025/01/07-me-minutes.html kaz
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