14:39:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:39:52 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-irc
14:39:58 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
14:40:02 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:40:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft miutes
14:40:06 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft miutes', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:40:10 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft miutes//
14:40:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:40:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:57:10 <EgeKorka_> EgeKorka_ has joined #wot-td
14:57:28 <EgeKorka_> EgeKorka_ has joined #wot-td
15:01:24 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
15:01:52 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan
15:01:56 <kaz> chair: Ege
15:03:27 <kaz> regrets+ Mahda
15:04:36 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:04:44 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
15:05:55 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
15:06:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:06:08 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
15:06:12 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
15:06:58 <kaz> scribenick: dape
15:07:28 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#December_18%2C_2024
15:08:08 <dape> TOPIC: minutes review
15:08:24 <dape> Ege: first slot, https://www.w3.org/2024/12/11-wot-td-minutes.html
15:09:12 <JKRhb> q+
15:09:46 <dape> JR: Small typo in repository
15:09:51 <EgeKorka_> ack j
15:10:08 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
15:10:16 <dape> Kaz: fixed
15:10:33 <dape> EK: Anything else?
15:10:45 <dape> ... none -> minutes are approved
15:10:50 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
15:11:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:11:16 <dape> Ege: second slot, https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html
15:11:26 <dape> EK: Any remark?
15:11:45 <dape> ... none -> minutes are approved
15:12:07 <dape> TOPIC: Proposals Folder
15:12:16 <dape> EK: see PR https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2062
15:12:24 <kaz> s/minutes review/Minutes Review/
15:12:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:12:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:12:32 <dape> ... not clear what the proposals folder is about
15:12:37 <dape> ... created root README
15:13:02 <dape> ... about feature that doesn't fit into a single issue/PR
15:13:14 <dape> ... indicated different status
15:13:34 <dape> ... in progress, rejected, paused, accepted, retired
15:13:39 <dape> q+
15:14:34 <dape> DP: Do we plan to remove proposals again?#
15:14:42 <dape> s/again?#/again?
15:14:54 <dape> EK: Good point, we could...
15:14:58 <kaz> q+
15:14:59 <dape> q-
15:15:14 <dape> Kaz: documentation is very useful
15:15:29 <dape> ... wondering when and how to put description
15:15:51 <dape> ... content should move to WoT process/transition
15:16:18 <dape> EK: Correct
15:16:36 <dape> ... main question is when does it start to be an actual issue
15:17:01 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/strategy example of the "strategy" repository
15:17:32 <dape> ... I would say it can be part of the overall process (if the group decides to work on it)
15:18:06 <dape> EK: I will add this information
15:18:44 <dape> ... a possible outcome could point to the project management tooling
15:19:00 <dape> Kaz: For today we can record this point
15:19:11 <dape> ... separate issue is also fine
15:19:59 <kaz> regrets+ McCool, Sebastian
15:20:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:20:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:20:08 <dape> EK: created issue 2063 to keep track
15:21:03 <dape> EK: NO more remark on PR 2062 --> merging
15:21:14 <dape> s/NO more remark/No more remarks
15:21:41 <dape> TOPIC: BACnet mediaType
15:21:54 <EgeKorka_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/357
15:21:56 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:21:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:22:03 <EgeKorka_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/390
15:22:11 <dape> EK: Similar in Modbus
15:22:18 <mjk> q?
15:22:23 <dape> ... in binding document there is no contentType
15:22:23 <kaz> q-
15:22:27 <dape> ... this would mean JSON
15:22:34 <dape> ... but BACnet is not JSON
15:22:45 <dape> it is going to be octet stream
15:22:52 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
15:23:00 <dape> ... it is somewhat redundant information
15:23:54 <dape> ... Dohan added const octet-stream for contentType
15:24:21 <dape> ... there is explanation in PR as well
15:24:35 <mjk> q+
15:24:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:25:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:25:06 <cris> q+
15:25:06 <dape> ... simple PR but there are possbile "issues"
15:25:19 <dape> MK: I think it is correct
15:26:08 <dape> ... it feels appropriate
15:26:47 <mjk> ack mjk
15:26:57 <dape> CA: I think PR is harmless
15:27:12 <dape> ... I am okay with moving on with this one
15:27:39 <dape> ... with connection proposals we can more easily handle this
15:27:45 <dape> ... about Modbus
15:28:42 <dape> ... could declare contentType application/JSON
15:28:59 <dape> ... driver will read all the bytes and interpret it as JSON
15:29:13 <kaz> q+
15:29:18 <dape> ... not sure if this is the same in BACnet, I don't think so..
15:29:59 <dape> EK: I don't know
15:30:17 <dape> ... but then we should not use const ... default should be enough
15:30:28 <dape> ... but I know BACnet is rather strict
15:31:26 <dape> ... I will ping Dohan
15:31:49 <cris> ack c
15:32:23 <kaz> q?
15:32:28 <dape> EK: merging PR 390
15:32:35 <EgeKorka_> s/Dohan/Dogan
15:33:12 <dape> Kaz: I was wondering about smart building "companies" ...
15:33:19 <dape> ... they are interested in BACnet also
15:33:32 <dape> ... we can ask them about their approach
15:33:45 <dape> EK: Yes, we should get in touch with them
15:33:56 <dape> Kaz: I think they are using BACnet devices
15:34:43 <dape> MK: In Sweden, BACnet is going to come as requirement
15:34:59 <dape> Kaz: I can try to ask TAKANAKA people
15:35:09 <dape> EK: That would be very useful
15:35:13 <EgeKorka_> q?
15:35:14 <EgeKorka_> ack k
15:35:22 <kaz> s/TAKANAKA/Takenaka/
15:35:25 <dape> TOPIC: Binding Registry
15:35:49 <kaz> s/people/people. Also the Nordic Smart City CG guys./
15:35:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:35:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:36:00 <EgeKorka_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/378
15:36:09 <kaz> s/it is going/... it is going/
15:36:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:36:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:36:23 <dape> EK: We talked about last Thursday
15:36:31 <dape> ... like copyright rules et cetera
15:36:48 <dape> ... we decided that there is no need to follow W3C rules
15:37:25 <dape> ... Jan also asked about document being freely available
15:37:37 <dape> ... this has several dimensions
15:38:11 <dape> ... free to read does not necessarily mean free to implement, etc.
15:38:40 <mjk> q?
15:38:59 <dape> EK: ... Dimensions: Reading the binding document, reading the protocol specification, implementing a device/Thing, implementing a Consumer application/driver, and building a commercial product with it, making a statement about your product's supporting that binding.
15:39:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:39:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:39:42 <dape> ... e.g. BACnet binding is free to read, but that does not mean the BACNet spec
15:39:50 <kaz> s/EK: .../.../
15:39:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:39:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:39:58 <mjk> q+
15:40:20 <dape> ... there are all this legal frameworks
15:41:01 <dape> ... Koster raised the point, we should not limit it to be "free"
15:41:16 <dape> ... which would end up being IETF only
15:42:21 <dape> ... in IANA registration you need a summary document
15:42:45 <dape> ... we could require such a summary document to be freely available
15:42:56 <EgeKorka_> q?
15:43:12 <dape> MK: I think the summary of the discussion is good
15:43:23 <dape> ... we should talk about different kinds of restrictions
15:43:36 <dape> ... technical vs commercial use
15:43:45 <dape> ... commercial use is out of scope
15:44:02 <dape> ... Matter is about using the trademarks
15:45:11 <dape> ack mjk
15:45:13 <mjk> ack mjk
15:45:16 <kaz> q+
15:45:29 <dape> Kaz: I agree with M. Koster
15:45:48 <dape> ... we can/should do what the web codec groups used
15:45:59 <EgeKorka_> https://www.w3.org/TR/webcodecs-codec-registry/#audio-codec-registry
15:46:04 <dape> EK: Yes, I wanted to show that
15:46:10 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:46:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:46:29 <dape> EK: Basic what is in the registry
15:46:51 <dape> ... that is something we can do
15:46:55 <kaz> s|https://www.w3.org/TR/webcodecs-codec-registry/#audio-codec-registry|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/webcodecs-codec-registry/#audio-codec-registry WebCodecs Codec Registry|
15:46:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:46:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:47:04 <kaz> q-
15:47:05 <dape> ... another point is the review process
15:47:36 <dape> ... reviewer should be able to read the binding document ... maybe through liaison
15:48:04 <mjk> q?
15:48:04 <dape> ... or through member companies
15:48:10 <mjk> q+
15:48:18 <dape> ... if there is no such possibility I think we need to reject it
15:48:48 <dape> MK: Minimum explainer document could be enough, right ?
15:49:05 <dape> EK: I would be uncomfortable
15:49:09 <kaz> s|we can/should do what the web codec groups used|what we can/should do is listing which protocols and ecosystems to be used for WoT like the "WebCodecs Codec Registry" shows.|
15:49:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:49:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:49:20 <dape> ... we cannot check the requirements
15:49:30 <JKRhb> s/right ?/right?/
15:49:47 <dape> MK: I see
15:49:58 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:50:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:50:07 <dape> ... we have to discuss that more
15:50:11 <dape> ... what we require
15:50:45 <mjk> ack mjk
15:51:24 <dape> EK: I will try to split the points mentioned
15:51:38 <dape> ... copy right rules
15:51:43 <dape> ... look and feel
15:52:04 <dape> ... reviewer access
15:52:23 <dape> ... binding availability
15:54:04 <JKRhb> q+
15:54:25 <cris0> cris0 has joined #wot-td
15:54:26 <dape> EK: Does anyone have strong opinions on these points?
15:54:53 <dape> JR: Reviewer access to protocol as well?
15:55:00 <cris> q+
15:55:01 <dape> EK: Yes, or must be expert already
15:55:07 <dape> ack JKRhb
15:55:21 <dape> CA: Implications
15:55:48 <dape> ... implementing consumer might encounter licensing issues
15:55:50 <dape> EK: Yes
15:56:19 <dape> CA: I am still skeptical
15:56:35 <dape> EK: I wish we don't have that situation
15:56:50 <dape> ... but it is already the case for BACnet
15:57:12 <dape> CA: important for generic consumers
15:57:32 <dape> ... plugin concept
15:57:40 <dape> q?
15:57:42 <dape> ack cris
15:58:27 <dape> EK: will discuss this next year further
15:58:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:58:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:58:58 <dape> EK: What we need to discuss is also the status change
15:59:14 <dape> ... we need some implementation experience etc.
15:59:31 <dape> ... to become "current"
15:59:43 <dape> ... I don't think we gonna do a lab test
16:00:13 <dape> TOPIC: AOB
16:00:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:00:30 <dape> EK: Not hearing anything.. merry christmas
16:00:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:00:49 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:00:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:01:37 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:02:42 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:02:53 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:03:21 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:04:14 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:13:26 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:37:11 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
17:26:21 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
17:53:23 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
18:19:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td
18:56:48 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
18:56:59 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
20:19:06 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
20:21:57 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
21:53:20 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
22:34:03 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
22:54:17 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
23:55:35 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td