12:56:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
12:56:23 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-matf-irc
12:56:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #matf
12:59:50 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim agenda?
13:05:41 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, what is on the agenda?
13:05:41 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
13:06:12 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, help
13:06:12 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
13:06:14 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
13:06:14 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
13:06:14 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
13:06:14 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
13:06:16 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
13:06:16 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
13:06:16 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
13:06:16 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
13:06:16 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
13:06:16 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
13:06:17 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
13:06:17 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
13:06:17 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
13:06:17 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
13:06:17 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
13:06:17 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2020/12/31 21:20:53 $
13:07:05 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, start the meeting
13:07:05 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:07:07 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Joe_Humbert
13:09:09 <Joe_Humbert> Meeting: MATF 18 December 2024
13:45:50 <Joe_Humbert> Joe_Humbert has joined #matf
13:47:02 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, start meeting
13:47:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:47:04 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Joe_Humbert
13:47:34 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, this is MATF 18 December 2024
13:47:34 <Zakim> got it, Joe_Humbert
13:47:51 <Joe_Humbert> Meeting: MATF 18 December 2024
13:48:01 <Joe_Humbert> zakim, agenda?
13:48:01 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
13:48:35 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ Draft Group Note update
13:48:49 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ Conferences update
13:49:03 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 1.4.11 Non-text Contrast
13:49:16 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 1.4.10 Reflow
13:49:20 <Joe_Humbert> zakim, agenda?
13:49:20 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
13:49:21 <Zakim> 1. Draft Group Note update [from Joe_Humbert]
13:49:21 <Zakim> 2. Conferences update [from Joe_Humbert]
13:49:21 <Zakim> 3. 1.4.11 Non-text Contrast [from Joe_Humbert]
13:49:21 <Zakim> 4. 1.4.10 Reflow [from Joe_Humbert]
13:49:36 <Joe_Humbert> present+
13:50:13 <Joe_Humbert> regrets+ Tim Gravemaker
13:50:43 <Joe_Humbert> zakim, list participants
13:50:43 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Joe_Humbert
14:01:32 <Jon_Gibbins> Jon_Gibbins has joined #matf
14:02:42 <julianmka> julianmka has joined #MATF
14:03:04 <Joe_Humbert> chair+ julianmka
14:03:11 <julianmka> present+
14:03:20 <Jon_Gibbins> present+
14:03:57 <julianmka> regrets+ Tim Gravemaker
14:06:18 <Joe_Humbert> scribe: julianmka
14:06:46 <Illai> Illai has joined #matf
14:06:53 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
14:06:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Draft Group Note update -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
14:07:10 <Illai> present+
14:10:31 <Jon_Gibbins> q+
14:11:04 <julianmka> julianmka: Summarized last week's small group meeting about moving the draft forward and showed Github Projects.
14:11:49 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Summarized recent changes to the working draft.
14:12:28 <julianmka> ...If we want to publish formally in 2025, we should have the bulk of our work done by October.
14:13:27 <julianmka> Jon_Gibbins: At the small group, we also reviewed the Work Statement of this group. We are also reviewing that to show make sure the phases and timelines work for us going forward.
14:15:10 <julianmka> Link to Github Project: https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/147/views/1
14:17:21 <julianmka> ACTION: Ask JJ review whether TF members are properly connected to Github
14:19:15 <julianmka> julianmka: Showed Github Project and asked for volunteers to take on cards.
14:19:28 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
14:19:28 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Joe_Humbert
14:19:53 <Joe_Humbert> ack Jon_Gibbins
14:19:55 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
14:19:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Conferences update -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
14:20:00 <Jon_Gibbins> There you go
14:22:39 <Jon_Gibbins> Sounds good. I did mentioned the work MATF is doing at a recent talk about the European Accessibility Act. It would be good to keep the group on the same page about what we can talk about and when, which I guess will come naturally / from the work statement.
14:23:53 <julianmka> julianmka: Summarized conversations about conferences & socializing WCAG2Mobile and demoed the Discussions feature in Github.
14:24:15 <Joe_Humbert> q+
14:24:43 <Illai> q+
14:24:52 <julianmka> ack Joe_Humbert
14:25:13 <Jon_Gibbins> Agreed
14:25:15 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Would be helpful to focus on the revision of the Work Statement.
14:26:43 <Jon_Gibbins> e.g. WCAG2ICT work statement is public
14:26:44 <Jon_Gibbins> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/groups/task-forces/wcag2ict/work-statement/
14:27:04 <Jon_Gibbins> This is ours currently
14:27:05 <Jon_Gibbins> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/work-statement
14:27:34 <Jon_Gibbins> (which is oooold)
14:27:58 <Illai> q-
14:29:56 <julianmka> Updated draft of Work Statement: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uaCPLagTBiGmg3frlFVoYi_TgqkJoOJA7tItiAEeiAk/edit?tab=t.0
14:30:44 <julianmka> ACTION: Add agenda item for the Work Statement in the new year.
14:31:53 <Mick> Mick has joined #MATF
14:32:08 <Mick> present+
14:32:28 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
14:32:28 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- 1.4.11 Non-text Contrast -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
14:32:33 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/49
14:34:28 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Summarizes previous discussion on 1.4.11.
14:34:30 <Mick> q+
14:34:52 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Should we address Dark Mode as a separate item or as part of each relevant SC?
14:34:56 <Joe_Humbert> ack Mick
14:35:15 <julianmka> Illai: Include it in system settings.
14:35:35 <julianmka> Mick: Agree that we should call it out in system settings guidance but also on relevant SCs.
14:39:48 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Highlights conversation about the meaning of "user agent" in the native context (https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/49#issuecomment-2324142511). This could be a high-level definition used in notes for relevant SCs.
14:39:52 <Mick> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/63 - user agent definition issue
14:41:41 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: The definition of "user interface component" changed in a recent update to WCAG 2.2; we should find out what changed.
14:44:51 <Mick> q+
14:44:54 <julianmka> ...after looking, perhaps there wasn't a change. We can't find a difference between 2.1 and 2.2 definitions.
14:46:27 <julianmka> Mick: Re: contrast on keyboard focus, we don't test for that internally due to complexity and difficulty.
14:46:50 <julianmka> ...I don't think Deque does, either.
14:48:18 <julianmka> @Jamie: Users can change the default keyboard focus indicator color, thickness, and other features in iOS. Android users don't have that option unless they're also using TalkBack with the external keyboard.
14:48:35 <julianmka> s/@Jamie/Jamie/
14:48:48 <Illai> q+
14:48:57 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: For Android, that's not changing the keyboard focus but screen reader focus style.
14:49:14 <Jamie> Jamie has joined #matf
14:49:24 <Jamie> present+
14:49:40 <julianmka> Joe_Humbert: Speaking to Android keyboard focus, I know of an issue that was filed where Google closed it as won't fix.
14:50:16 <julianmka> ack Illai
14:50:48 <julianmka> Illai: We are covering focus indicators which isn't related to non-text contrast. Other SCs cover that.
14:51:05 <Mick> Deque testing methodology also don't test for visible focus color changes - although they focus their testing around switch control and state focus indicator that cannot be overridden (for iOS and Android).
14:52:42 <Jon_Gibbins> q+
14:53:21 <julianmka> julianmka: Seems to be agreement that this SC applies to native mobile, what would we need to address in notes as caveats?
14:54:51 <julianmka> Jon_Gibbins: Non-text contrast applies to keyboard at AA because Focus Appearance is AAA. While other SCs also relate to keyboard accessibility, Focus Appearance is separate from contrast requirements. Focus Appearance is more about how easily discernable focus style is.
14:55:58 <Jamie> q+
14:56:01 <julianmka> ...In my view, this SC (1.4.11) requires a certain level of contrast for keyboard focus indicator
14:57:19 <julianmka> ack mick
14:57:23 <julianmka> ack Jon_Gibbins
14:57:36 <julianmka> ack Jamie
15:00:10 <julianmka> Jamie: Could we add a note about the user customizing the focus indicator, do we consider dark mode, and do we need to address hover/focus states?
15:01:42 <Jon_Gibbins> Thanks everyone
15:03:03 <julianmka> ACTION: Consider Dark Mode in the bigger note about respecting system settings.
15:10:37 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, list participants
15:10:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Jon_Gibbins, Illai, Mick, Jamie
15:11:07 <Joe_Humbert> rrsagent, make minutes
15:11:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-matf-minutes.html Joe_Humbert
15:11:43 <Joe_Humbert> rrsagent, bye
15:11:43 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-matf-actions.rdf :
15:11:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ask JJ review whether TF members are properly connected to Github [1]
15:11:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-matf-irc#T14-17-21
15:11:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Add agenda item for the Work Statement in the new year. [2]
15:11:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-matf-irc#T14-30-44
15:11:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Consider Dark Mode in the bigger note about respecting system settings. [3]
15:11:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/12/18-matf-irc#T15-03-03
15:11:49 <Joe_Humbert> zakim, bye
15:11:49 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joe_Humbert, julianmka, Jon_Gibbins, Illai, Mick, Jamie
15:11:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #matf