14:59:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
14:59:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-irc
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15:01:08 <hadrian> present+
15:01:35 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
15:01:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
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15:01:36 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
15:01:38 <eBremer> present+
15:01:55 <kaefer3000> present+
15:01:56 <acoburn> present+
15:01:57 <hadrian> present+
15:02:07 <pchampin> present+
15:02:11 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
15:03:02 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #lws
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15:04:02 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:04:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:04:11 <AZ> present+
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15:04:26 <ericP> present+
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15:05:44 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:05:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:06:36 <TallTed> present+
15:06:55 <acoburn> scribenick: kaefer3000
15:07:07 <acoburn> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:07:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:07:29 <kaefer3000> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:07:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html kaefer3000
15:07:37 <csarven> Ill. I'll follow up with UCs and other matter.
15:07:45 <csarven> regrets+ csarven
15:09:03 <acoburn> chair: acoburn
15:09:34 <TallTed> present+
15:09:35 <balessan> present+
15:12:24 <kaefer3000> acoburn: are there introductions?
15:12:30 <kaefer3000> ... are there annoucements?
15:13:18 <kaefer3000> acoburn: no introductions, no annoucements
15:13:37 <kaefer3000> s/annoucements/announcements/
15:13:49 <acoburn> topic: Use cases scoping and requirements
15:14:23 <kaefer3000> acoburn: a good number of use-cases have come in on GitHub
15:14:30 <kaefer3000> ... scoping needs to happen
15:15:03 <kaefer3000> ... let's discuss requirements gathering
15:15:28 <kaefer3000> ericP: discussing requirements shall inform scoping discussion
15:15:53 <ericP> Agent Identity - (unambiguously) store/exchange identities, e.g. URLs
15:15:53 <ericP> Fingerprint - resolve an agent identity against a real-world agent
15:15:53 <ericP> Authorization - grant specific access to agents
15:15:53 <ericP> Capability discovery - dynamically learn agent or site’s capabilities
15:15:54 <ericP> Data discovery - find data matching some criteria
15:15:54 <ericP> Data management -
15:15:54 <ericP> Lost Update - ensure that update 2 does not wipe out update 1
15:15:55 <ericP> Notification - (subscription) agent 2 notifies agent 1 about changes to data
15:15:55 <ericP> Portability - ability to move from one data provider to another
15:15:57 <kaefer3000> ericP: what can easily accomplished?
15:16:06 <laurens> laurens has joined #lws
15:16:13 <laurens> present+
15:16:13 <kaefer3000> ... (copied from GitHub)
15:19:20 <kaefer3000> ... portability and identity are larger problems
15:19:21 <hadrian> q+
15:19:31 <acoburn> ack next
15:20:10 <kaefer3000> hadrian: discussions do happen and not everything is reflected in the issues list
15:20:50 <kaefer3000> ... there are interdependencies. solutions here may make our life easier there
15:22:04 <kaefer3000> ericP: there is no nice management solutions for the interdependency between portability and identity
15:22:14 <dmitriz> present+
15:22:40 <kaefer3000> ... we just need to be aware
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15:23:03 <jeswr> present+
15:23:07 <hadrian> q+
15:23:23 <acoburn> ack next
15:23:29 <kaefer3000> acoburn: is there anything missing from ericP's list?
15:23:30 <kaefer3000> q+
15:24:07 <acoburn> ack next
15:24:09 <kaefer3000> hadrian: we should converge on the terminology that hels speed up things
15:24:17 <kaefer3000> s/hels/helps/
15:24:24 <acoburn> scribe+
15:24:53 <acoburn> kaefer3000: ericP is this a distillation from github or a copy?
15:25:02 <kaefer3000> q-
15:25:10 <acoburn> ericP: this was a categorization of some issues, not comprehensive
15:25:14 <acoburn> scribe-
15:25:41 <laurens> q+
15:26:30 <kaefer3000> acoburn: many use-cases are about authentication mechanisms
15:26:36 <ericP> +1 to keeping authentication separate from authorization and identity
15:26:58 <acoburn> ack next
15:27:57 <kaefer3000> laurens: +1 to that authentication is important
15:28:34 <kaefer3000> q+
15:28:43 <acoburn> ack next
15:28:47 <acoburn> scribe+
15:29:12 <acoburn> tobias3000: I wouldn't expect the fingerprint requirement. What does this mean?
15:29:22 <acoburn> scribe-
15:29:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html TallTed
15:30:14 <acoburn> s/tobias3000/kaefer3000/
15:30:26 <acoburn> q+
15:30:37 <acoburn> ack next
15:30:47 <kaefer3000> ericP: fits the role that in a lot of interfaces, somebody's icon pops up on @-mentions to give an idea who somebody is, like who do you write a check to?
15:30:48 <gb> https://github.com/-mentions -> @-mentions
15:32:02 <hadrian> q+
15:32:11 <dmitriz> that's still authentication, yeah (the ssh fingerprint thing)
15:32:15 <jeswr> q+
15:32:27 <acoburn> ack next
15:33:13 <kaefer3000> hadrian: non-repudiation and reputation should be out of scope but we should not preclude them with our work
15:33:59 <kaefer3000> q+
15:34:56 <kaefer3000> kaefer3000: what is a UX problem, what isn't
15:35:05 <kaefer3000> q-
15:36:11 <acoburn> ack next
15:36:24 <kaefer3000> ericP: proposal: let's have use-cases that are out of scope, reasons: 1) allow people to see that they have been heard 2) provides a test environment to us, for later layering those out-of-scope things on top
15:37:02 <kaefer3000> jeswr: does qpf or sparql fall under the data discovery category?
15:37:17 <kaefer3000> ... where does security fall under?
15:38:08 <kaefer3000> acoburn: qpf= quadruple-pattern fragments, generalisation of triple-pattern fragments, querying techniques
15:38:43 <kaefer3000> s/techniques/technique/
15:38:51 <acoburn> q?
15:39:06 <acoburn> quad pattern fragments
15:39:36 <kaefer3000> acoburn: we need to distinguish between use-cases and requirements and solutions
15:41:00 <kaefer3000> jeswr: use-case: I do not want to trust my resource server, is that data management?
15:41:38 <kaefer3000> jeswr: two out-of-scope topics:
15:41:39 <hadrian> q+
15:42:22 <kaefer3000> ... 1) signature-based provenance, verifiable credentials
15:42:32 <acoburn> q+
15:42:52 <dmitriz> q+
15:42:54 <acoburn> ack next
15:42:58 <kaefer3000> ... 2) data governance, odrl. Important, but probably out of scope for lws.
15:43:38 <kaefer3000> hadrian: nico's use-case - structure for storage. is that data management? should we tackle it at all?
15:44:05 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues/24 -> Issue 24 [UC] DECOUPLING between API PROTOCOL(s) and INTEROP specs (by niko-ng) [triage] [usecase] [needs-discussion]
15:44:13 <kaefer3000> s/nico/niko/
15:44:43 <acoburn> ack next
15:45:42 <acoburn> ack next
15:45:46 <kaefer3000> acoburn: agrees that data governance and signature-based provenance should be out of scope, but they should not be precluded
15:46:23 <kaefer3000> dmitriz: we need sensible hooks for those points, but should not cover them
15:47:00 <pchampin> +1 dmitriz
15:47:08 <kaefer3000> dmitriz: we should add affordances for the future for things like auxiliary resources
15:47:27 <acoburn> q?
15:47:37 <acoburn> q+
15:47:40 <kaefer3000> jeswr: but we should not pre-assign specific solutions (e.g. odrl)
15:47:43 <acoburn> ack next
15:48:23 <kaefer3000> acoburn: to what extent can we just defer to HTTP?
15:48:53 <kaefer3000> ericP: I used HTTP/1.1 lingo when I wrote the points above
15:49:19 <ericP> q+ to remind folks that we'll want to allow some folks to predictably get some resources
15:49:25 <acoburn> ack next
15:49:26 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to remind folks that we'll want to allow some folks to predictably get some resources
15:53:32 <kaefer3000> ericP: regarding affordances without prescribing solutions: Linked Data Platform allows to, e.g. GET/POST resources, has test suite -- we want to control access to resources. If we talk about access control, we need a solution for identity, and this needs to be reflected in the test suite
15:54:33 <kaefer3000> ... in contrast, ODRL has rules for what things need to look like but has no test suite.
15:54:49 <kaefer3000> ... thus, let's strive to be more LDP and less ODRL
15:55:34 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:55:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html pchampin
15:55:49 <kaefer3000> s/let's strive to be more LDP and less ODRL/in that sense, LDP may be the better role model than ODRL/
15:56:01 <kaefer3000> acoburn: next meeting on Jan 6
15:56:14 <kaefer3000> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:56:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html kaefer3000
16:01:35 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:01:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/16-lws-minutes.html pchampin
16:02:14 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
16:02:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
<pchampin> s|https://github.com/-mentions -> @-mentions|
<pchampin> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20241216T100000/#agenda