13:59:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
13:59:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-irc
13:59:52 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2
14:03:20 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:03:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:03:42 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:04:47 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
14:05:09 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
14:05:14 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
14:05:22 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:05:25 <kaz> scribenick: mjk
14:08:09 <kaz> q+
14:08:41 <kaz> q-
14:09:37 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
14:09:57 <kaz> topic: Cancellations
14:10:26 <kaz> Slot 2 call on Dec 19 will be canceled while Slot 1 call on Dec 18 will be held.
14:12:06 <mjk> topic: minutes review
14:12:23 <EgeKorkan> https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-wot-td-minutes.html
14:12:39 <kaz> s|https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-wot-td-minutes.html|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-wot-td-minutes.html Nov-21|
14:14:07 <mjk> ek: any comments or corrections?
14:14:20 <mjk> ... no comments, minutes approved
14:14:39 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:14:50 <kaz> chair: Ege
14:14:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:14:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:15:03 <dape> q+
14:15:09 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
14:15:24 <kaz> i|Slot 2 call|scribenick: kaz|
14:15:31 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
14:15:34 <kaz> i|any comme|scribenick: mjk|
14:15:36 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
14:15:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:15:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:15:47 <mjk> topic: cancellations
14:16:09 <kaz> q+
14:16:09 <mjk> dape: we need to cancel more than the Dec. 19th call
14:16:12 <kaz> q-
14:16:15 <kaz> ack d
14:16:18 <dape> ack dape
14:16:19 <mjk> ... also January 6th
14:16:57 <kaz> s/cancellations/cancellations - revisited/
14:17:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:17:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:17:16 <mjk> ek: propose to cancel 25+26 December and 1+2 January
14:17:22 <mjk> ... any objections?
14:17:44 <mjk> ... no objections, so we will cancel these dates
14:18:05 <mjk> ... (cancelled in WoT calendar)
14:18:45 <kaz> q+
14:19:08 <mjk> topic: initial connection
14:19:10 <EgeKorkan> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2058
14:19:19 <kaz> q-
14:19:40 <mjk> ek: Review PR #2058
14:19:48 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2058|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2058 PR 2058 - Initial Connection Feature Description|
14:20:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:22:00 <mjk> ... ek: the changes include feature descriptions and schema updates making validation more difficult
14:22:04 <dape> q+
14:23:04 <mjk> ... There is more to TD validation than JSON Schema validation
14:23:33 <mjk> dape: maybe there can be if-conditions in JSON Schema
14:24:08 <dape> ack dape
14:24:12 <mjk> ... If the expanded TD works, we could requirer expanded TDs in the workflow
14:24:24 <kaz> q+
14:24:29 <mjk> ek: we will need to refine the definition of expanded
14:24:57 <mjk> ... for example, does connectiondefinitions need to be expanded?
14:25:06 <cris> +1 for the second one
14:25:12 <dape> +1 as well
14:25:15 <mjk> ... all the common definitions will need to be expanded
14:26:31 <mjk> kaz: The whole WG needs to think about how to test this, whether it is too complicated for implementation
14:26:44 <mjk> ek: I have a similar concern
14:27:05 <mjk> ... some examples do get complicated
14:27:30 <mjk> ... we need more experience and see if we can write the schema
14:27:34 <cris> q+
14:27:46 <mjk> kaz: we need more test cases
14:28:00 <mjk> ... maybe we can do the expansion in thingmodel
14:28:10 <mjk> ek: agree
14:28:27 <EgeKorkan> ack k
14:29:05 <mjk> cris: how will this impact typescript typing?
14:29:23 <dape> q+
14:29:36 <mjk> ... it may break the autogeneration
14:30:02 <mjk> ... we need more concrete experience
14:31:04 <mjk> ek: in the worst case, the schema constraints will need to be relaxed
14:31:25 <cris> ack c
14:32:02 <mjk> ek: if someone wants to work on this, please let me know and go ahead
14:33:21 <mjk> dape: maybe the more flexible format is for human readability, the full expansion is more machine friendly and will allow rigorous validation
14:33:49 <mjk> ek: expansion should then be required for machine consumption
14:35:11 <mjk> ek: any other comments?
14:35:16 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:35:22 <dape> ack dape
14:35:45 <mjk> topic: registry
14:36:02 <mjk> subtopic: PR #378
14:36:23 <mjk> ek: this was discussed in the F2F
14:37:01 <mjk> ... there are only a few TODOs left, let's start with the simple ones
14:37:49 <mjk> ... does the submission document be required to follow W3C submission rules, e.g. use respec
14:38:06 <mjk> s/does/will
14:38:27 <mjk> ... also copyright requirements
14:38:29 <kaz> i|this was|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/378 wot-binding-templates PR 378 - Registry Requirements Update|
14:38:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:38:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:39:05 <mjk> ... there seems to be preliminary consensus that this is not a strict requirement
14:39:18 <JKRhb> q+
14:39:22 <cris> q+
14:39:24 <mjk> ek: any opinions?
14:39:24 <kaz> s/topic: initial connection/topic: TD - Initial Connection/
14:39:37 <kaz> s/topic: registry/topic: Binding - Registry/
14:39:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:39:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:40:00 <mjk> jan: should the binding document be required to be freely available under a permissive license?
14:40:32 <mjk> ek: specifically not requiring payment
14:40:37 <mjk> jan: yes
14:40:37 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:40:41 <JKRhb> q-
14:41:14 <mjk> cris: second Jan's point, and OK with a URL that points to the document
14:41:38 <mjk> ... and to the specific section
14:41:50 <mjk> ek: this wouldn't work for PDF
14:42:08 <mjk> cris: we could recommend HTML if a subsection reference is needed
14:42:30 <dape> q+
14:42:34 <cris> ack c
14:43:13 <mjk> dape: we also need to require the documents be stable
14:43:32 <dape> ack dape
14:43:51 <mjk> ek: link and date of the link, both link and content can not change
14:45:00 <mjk> ek: regarding permissive license,we may not be able to mandate free availability, for example ISO charges for documents
14:45:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:45:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:45:26 <mjk> ... at least we could require a copy provided to the W3C WG
14:45:41 <mjk> s/W3C WG/W3C WoT WG
14:45:50 <mjk> eg: other opinions?
14:46:07 <mjk> ... what are requirements for IANA?
14:46:36 <mjk> cris: don't remember any constraints on availability, but will double check
14:47:17 <mjk> ... restricted document access is not aligned with the open web principles
14:47:41 <mjk> ... but we may need to be more industry friendly
14:48:32 <mjk> eg: The Profinet binding is openly aavailable but the Profinet protocol itself is a restricted document
14:50:24 <mjk> mjk: we want to be inclusive, maybe this is more important than W3C policy alignment
14:51:14 <mjk> ek: what are the restrictions on the matter protocol?
14:52:22 <cris> q+
14:53:04 <mjk> mjk: device manufacture may require IP agrfeement and joining CSA for IP access, but web APIs are not covered
14:53:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:53:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:53:32 <kaz> s/agrfee/agree/
14:53:39 <mjk> cris: there are restrictions on protocol deployment in many specs, e.g. LoRA and Sigfox
14:53:58 <kaz> q+
14:54:18 <cris> ack c
14:54:34 <mjk> ... we should require that at least web clients are not restricted, and servers also preferred
14:55:19 <mjk> ek: we should look at commercial licensing restrictions vs. restrictions on the information
14:56:03 <mjk> ... there may be some basic requirements
14:56:38 <mjk> kaz: there might be some practical industry knowledge about how to interoperate with Matter
14:57:20 <mjk> ... we could VC as a security/permissions layer if needed
14:57:47 <EgeKorkan> q?
14:57:49 <EgeKorkan> ack k
14:57:50 <mjk> ... if complicated dat aaccess control is needed
14:58:04 <mjk> ek: any other opinions?
14:58:38 <cris> q+
14:58:43 <mjk> ... the only think it seems we can mandate is the binding document itself
14:59:08 <mjk> ... and make strong recommendations about protocol
14:59:20 <kaz> s/we could/In addition, we could use/
14:59:30 <kaz> s/dat aa/data a/
14:59:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:59:49 <mjk> cris: there will not be general interoperability if we only mandate the document availability
14:59:50 <kaz> s/eg:/ek:/g
15:00:22 <mjk> ek: it's already a win if there is a binding document available
15:00:50 <mjk> cris: this is a big decision and should be taken up in the main call with the larger group
15:01:09 <mjk> ek: thank you all for the good comments and good discussion
15:01:14 <mjk> is there AOB?
15:01:25 <mjk> s/is/... is
15:01:31 <mjk> ek: adjourned
15:01:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:02:12 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
15:17:44 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
15:34:46 <EgeKorka_> EgeKorka_ has joined #wot-td
15:52:43 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:12:20 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:29:34 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:50:37 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:59:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td
17:09:22 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
17:19:10 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
17:30:21 <benfrancis> benfrancis has joined #wot-td
17:37:00 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
17:57:07 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
18:15:04 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
18:20:11 <EgeKorka_> EgeKorka_ has joined #wot-td
18:20:44 <benfrancis> benfrancis has joined #wot-td
18:22:16 <benfrancis> benfrancis has joined #wot-td
18:39:45 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
18:57:55 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
19:16:34 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td