14:51:19 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 14:51:23 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-i18n-irc 14:51:30 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 14:51:36 Chair: Addison Phillips 14:51:48 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b7edae68-f52c-4aab-a1a6-3c37459e0786/20241212T150000/ 14:51:48 clear agenda 14:51:48 agenda+ Agenda Review 14:51:48 agenda+ Action Items 14:51:48 agenda+ Info Share 14:51:50 agenda+ RADAR Review 14:51:52 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 14:51:55 agenda+ Publish string-search as FPWD 14:51:57 agenda+ MathML Core and WASM issue review 14:52:00 agenda+ WAI ACT Rule issue review 14:52:02 agenda+ String-Search PR for IVS 14:52:04 agenda+ I18N+CSS prep 14:52:07 agenda+ AOB? 14:59:30 present+ Addison 15:00:52 JcK has joined #i18n 15:04:10 present+ JcK, Richard 15:06:13 present+ 15:06:14 zakim, take up agendum 1 15:06:14 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:06:16 agenda? 15:06:39 zakim, take up agendum 2 15:06:39 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:07:00 agenda+ vertical lists 15:07:12 scribe+ 15:07:20 agenda+ Vertical lists article 15:07:46 #148 15:07:46 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/148 -> Action 148 propose specdev text related to design-principles#464 discussion (on aphillips) due 2024-12-12 15:07:57 #147 15:07:58 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/147 -> Action 147 Follow up on normativity warnings about glossary (on aphillips) 15:08:07 #145 15:08:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/145 -> Action 145 publish timezone for wide review (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28 15:08:19 #143 15:08:20 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/143 -> Action 143 make comments on the encoding issue attached to i18n-activity#1940 (on aphillips) due 2024-11-28 15:08:35 #135 15:08:36 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/135 -> Action 135 follow up on XR issue 1393 about locale in session (on aphillips) due 2024-10-17 15:08:42 #127 15:08:43 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/127 -> Action 127 make a list of shared topics of interest between TG2 and W3C-I18N (on aphillips) due 2024-09-30 15:08:57 #89 15:08:57 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/89 -> Action 89 update i18n specs to support dark mode (on xfq) due 2024-04-18 15:09:02 #33 15:09:03 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 15:09:16 #7 15:09:16 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 15:09:31 #4 15:09:31 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on aphillips) due 27 Jul 2023 15:09:37 zakim, take up agendum 3 15:09:37 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:09:51 zakim, take up agendum 4 15:09:51 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:10:02 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1 15:10:25 addison: two new incoming ones 15:10:30 ... WebCodecs 15:10:33 ... due Feb 28 15:10:41 ... I took a brief look at it 15:11:00 ... I'll take it 15:11:16 ... the next one, WebRTC 15:11:23 ... we last reviewed WebRTC in 2016 15:11:26 ... it's a REC 15:11:35 ... they're publishing some amendments to it 15:12:36 xfq: I'll take this one 15:13:05 zakim, take up agendum 5 15:13:06 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:13:28 i18n-activity#1945 15:13:28 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1945 -> Issue 1945 Canvas TextMetrics additions for editing and text styling (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:html] [whatwg] 15:13:47 i18n-activity#1957 15:13:48 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1957 -> Issue 1957 Ambiguous parameter comparison definitions (by w3cbot) [pending] [close?] [tracker] [s:controller-document] 15:14:51 agenda? 15:15:08 zakim, take up agendum 6 15:15:08 agendum 6 -- Publish string-search as FPWD -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:15:47 Some time ago we split off materials in string-search from Charmod-norm. These materials have received some work, even though we are not actively developing this document. Most recently we merged an example from hsivonen. 15:15:47 We have not published this work to TR, however. The question is whether we should publish a DNOTE as FPWD. 15:15:48 addison: I merged the changes to string-search 15:16:04 ... I noticed that we've never published it to /TR 15:16:20 ... would we like to maybe publish string-search to /TR as a DNOTE? 15:16:39 https://w3c.github.io/string-search/ 15:16:52 r12a: does it have appropriate words at the beginning to say this is still very, very drafty? 15:16:58 addison: I think it does 15:17:57 r12a: I would recommend that we have some kind of banner that says this is very much just the stuff that we've thought of so far 15:18:09 ... and we will continue developing this over time 15:18:20 addison: OK 15:19:04 +1 with the banner 15:19:09 proposed: publish string-search as FPWD with an appropriate banner 15:19:29 +1 with the banner 15:19:35 +1 15:19:45 +1 15:20:04 RESOLVED: publish string-search as FPWD with an appropriate warning about the maturity of the materials in a banner 15:20:28 action: add a banner to string-search 15:20:30 Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe add a banner is not a valid user for w3c/i18n-actions? 15:20:47 action: addison: add a banner to string-search 15:20:48 Created -> action #149 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/149 15:20:54 addison: this has been a very useful thing in the past because people periodically discover that they want to create a string searching spec 15:21:12 action: xfq: add string-search to i18n-editors and get an echidna token 15:21:13 Created -> action #150 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/150 15:21:28 agenda? 15:21:57 zakim, take up agendum 9 15:21:58 agendum 9 -- String-Search PR for IVS -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:22:21 https://github.com/w3c/string-search/pull/24 15:22:21 https://github.com/w3c/string-search/pull/24 -> Pull Request 24 IVS in string searching (by xfq) 15:22:24 https://github.com/w3c/string-search/issues/21 15:22:25 https://github.com/w3c/string-search/issues/21 -> Issue 21 IVS in string searching (by xfq) 15:23:20 xfq: I filed an issue about this last year 15:23:35 ... some people searchnig have a base character with a variation selector 15:23:39 https://github.com/w3c/string-search/pull/24 15:23:50 ... awhile ago I raised a PR to add text to string searching 15:24:04 https://deploy-preview-24--w3c-string-search.netlify.app/#cjk-ivs 15:24:46 addison: this isn't really an orthographic or dialectical variation 15:24:55 ... it's yet another kind of encoding variation 15:25:24 ... I would pull it up a level and maybe put it after the East Asian width subsection as its own subsection 15:25:37 ... because those are both kind of encoding variations you find in CJK 15:25:47 ... otherwise, I thought the text was pretty good 15:26:27 ... images would be helpful 15:26:35 ... there are two problems 15:26:44 ... one is if you type in text with your IME 15:27:12 ... and you don't have the variation selector, then you don't find text that has the variation selector if you're just doing naive code point matching 15:27:38 ... and the other is if your IME produces the VS you won't find unmarked text or text with a different VS 15:27:49 ... even though they're all really the same on some level 15:27:58 q+ 15:28:01 ... so I think you do an okay job of spelling that out 15:28:32 ... I'm maybe a little bit dubious about the possibility of people adding a feature of search or find commands for fuzzy vs non-fuzzy 15:28:47 JcK: I think I agree 15:28:47 ack next 15:29:03 r12a: it's not only Chinese that uses variation selectors 15:29:29 ... I think we should give some though generalizing this a little bit, perhaps using Chinese as a good example 15:29:42 ... but Mongolian uses lots of variation selectors and other scripts too 15:30:02 ... so I think the concept here is that if you have a VS then you need to decide what to do about it 15:30:15 addison: for IVS Unicode has a registry of them 15:30:24 ... so that may be a subsection of that 15:30:35 r12a: it's slightly different 15:30:42 ... but it's all part of the same thing 15:31:00 ... the main thing is that chars can be followed by this thing called a VS of one type or another 15:31:40 rrsagent, make minutes 15:31:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:32:31 r12a: maybe renaming the section to something like "sequences with variation selectors" 15:33:29 rrsagent, make log public 15:33:33 rrsagent, make minutes 15:33:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:34:28 agenda? 15:34:43 zakim, take up agendum 10 15:34:44 agendum 10 -- I18N+CSS prep -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:35:02 addison: we have an i18n+css call coming up on Tuesday 15:35:48 ... does anybody have anything particular that they want to discuss about? 15:35:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1944 15:35:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1944 -> Issue 1944 [css-text-decor] Control the line height of text containing emphasis marks (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:css-text-decor] [spec-type-issue] [jlreq] [clreq] [mlreq] [klreq] [t:typ_misc] [wg:css] [i:emphasis] 15:37:56 [xfq describes the issue] 15:38:11 addison: you want the line spacing to stay the same and you want the marks to appear 15:38:58 ... anything else on that call? 15:39:01 zakim, take up agendum 13 15:39:01 agendum 13 -- Vertical lists article -- taken up [from r12a] 15:39:30 https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-upright-counters-in-vertical.html 15:40:04 r12a: I rewrote some bits 15:40:15 ... if you read this early on, you might want to read it again 15:41:14 ... we can't test @@ because none of the browsers support the digits value 15:42:46 ... the other thing is that when Japanese people were looking at these examples they all started saying @@ 15:42:57 s/@@/text-upright digits numbers/ 15:43:06 ... I was wondering maybe I should add another section that says "what about positioning?" 15:43:53 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues 15:44:25 xfq: we have 7 open issues against this article 15:44:47 ... ideally, we should close them before publishing 15:45:05 zakim, take up agendum 11 15:45:05 agendum 11 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:46:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-i18n-minutes.html addison 16:10:15 bigbluehat has joined #i18n