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17:56:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:56:33 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
17:56:34 <spectranaut_> agendabot, find agenda
17:56:34 <agendabot> spectranaut_, OK. This may take a minute...
17:56:35 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b57854a-65cb-421e-b9e0-f9a8da31f160/20241212T130000/
17:56:35 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:56:35 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/4d9vs2kd
17:56:35 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://tinyurl.com/459e6myc
17:56:37 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
17:56:40 <agendabot> agenda+ -> [accname] Explicitly state UAs must ignore “aria-label” for slots https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2385
17:56:43 <agendabot> agenda+ -> [AriaNotify] Naming for the priority property https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2333
17:56:46 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Discussion tracking for ARIA Notification proposal https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1957
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18:00:44 <jamesn> agenda?
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18:02:02 <pkra> present+
18:02:05 <giacomo-petri> present
18:02:07 <giacomo-petri> present+
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18:02:20 <katez> present+
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18:02:42 <Adam_Page> scribe: Adam_Page
18:02:46 <Adam_Page> present+
18:03:00 <Francis_Storr> present+
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18:05:48 <alisonmaher> present+
18:06:18 <spectranaut_> present+
18:06:36 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
18:06:36 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://tinyurl.com/4d9vs2kd -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:06:47 <hdv> present+
18:07:06 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria/#2397
18:07:11 <Adam_Page> ... dupe, I’ll close
18:07:23 <Adam_Page> ... aria#2396
18:07:28 <Adam_Page> ... editorial, skip
18:07:37 <Adam_Page> ... svg-aam#38
18:08:00 <Adam_Page> ... anyone in the WG introduced in working on SVG?
18:08:07 <Adam_Page> s/introduced/interested/
18:08:40 <smockle> present+
18:09:01 <Adam_Page> ... there are a lot of incorrect mappings, and we’re well-positioned to fix them
18:09:07 <Adam_Page> jamesn: we’ve taken ownership of svg-aam
18:09:22 <dmontalvo> https://www.w3.org/2025/01/aria-charter -> New ARIA Charter
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18:09:32 <Adam_Page> ... would be ideal to get someone from the former WG to own this
18:09:45 <smockle> q+
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18:10:31 <smockle> https://www.w3.org/2025/01/aria-charter.html#history
18:10:42 <Adam_Page> smockle: if this is something we’re owning, we should fix in our charter: “joint deliverable”
18:12:01 <Adam_Page> dmontalvo: I don’t think there’s an issue in the current charter, I’ll confirm
18:12:16 <Adam_Page> pkra: I have some interest in SVG mappings
18:12:44 <Adam_Page> jcraig: I filed some issues in 2023 re: WPT testing for graphics-aam and related svg-aam
18:13:01 <Adam_Page> ... just got stalled because of access
18:13:11 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: it’s in our repo now, so we should have access
18:13:17 <Adam_Page> pkra: how about a deep dive?
18:14:01 <Adam_Page> dmontalvo: it’s true that the current charter still says “joint deliverable”, but don’t think it will be an issue to just leave as is
18:14:23 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
18:14:23 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Adam_Page
18:14:29 <spectranaut_> ack smockle
18:14:29 <sarah> present+
18:14:32 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
18:14:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://tinyurl.com/459e6myc -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:14:46 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: aria#2395
18:15:00 <Adam_Page> ... from scotto
18:15:04 <Adam_Page> ... consistent naming for form controls
18:15:46 <Adam_Page> scotto: html-aam is not sufficiently descriptive when talking about gathering name from subtree
18:16:01 <Adam_Page> ... and also there’s an accname issue about form controls nested within labels
18:16:10 <Adam_Page> ... their values don’t get used in the name computation
18:16:19 <Adam_Page> ... so I incorporated that into these rewritten steps
18:16:38 <Adam_Page> ... noted this as editorial. It’s not changing any implementation, just improve accuracy of the wording
18:16:43 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: any reviewers?
18:16:46 <Adam_Page> jcraig: I will
18:17:01 <Adam_Page> hdv: I will also
18:17:29 <Adam_Page> BryanGaraventa: I will also
18:17:43 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: we should be able to land this soon
18:17:52 <Adam_Page> ... core-aam#241
18:18:07 <Adam_Page> ... searchbox mpping for ATK/AT-SPI2 to match IA2
18:18:10 <Adam_Page> ... need reviewers
18:18:19 <Adam_Page> filippo-zorzi: I will review
18:19:13 <Adam_Page> scotto: do we want to add a label to resurface open PRs?
18:19:26 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: yes, add `agenda+` and a comment
18:19:41 <Adam_Page> ... say “it’s just for review” and we’ll put it in the right agenda section
18:19:59 <Adam_Page> pkra: we also have the GitHub summary email — maybe we could tap into that
18:20:20 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: ah yes, the chairs could review that and choose things to put in the agenda?
18:20:22 <Adam_Page> ... we’ll think about that
18:20:34 <Adam_Page> ... if you ever need movement on something, just add `agenda+` and a comment
18:21:00 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
18:21:00 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:21:24 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: wpt#49647
18:21:49 <Adam_Page> giacomo-petri: I’ll review
18:21:57 <Adam_Page> hdv: I’ll review too
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18:22:34 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page: me too
18:23:55 <Adam_Page> jcraig: we only need 1 reviewer for WPT and then ping me
18:24:20 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: wpt#49645
18:24:31 <Adam_Page> scotto: this one is trickier since it’s only for the customizable select
18:24:48 <Adam_Page> ... can’t be fully tested in all browsers yet
18:24:59 <Adam_Page> ... but hoping to get the ball rolling
18:25:36 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: should this be linked to an issue/PR?
18:25:55 <Adam_Page> scotto: yep, it’s linked further below
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18:27:01 <Adam_Page> jcraig: in GitHub, go to Checks > wpt.fyi > any of the browsers > Latest results to see a visual comparison
18:27:23 <Adam_Page> ... I’ll check #49647 now
18:27:28 <Adam_Page> ... it can land as tentative
18:27:38 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: any other reviewers?
18:27:51 <Adam_Page> sarah: I’ll review
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18:28:42 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: wpt#49643
18:29:00 <Adam_Page> scotto: this is closing the loop on the linked PR
18:29:04 <Adam_Page> ... we rolled back contextual roles for listitem
18:29:16 <Adam_Page> ... but there was still aria#2212
18:29:23 <Adam_Page> ... and browsers are all doing different things for one text
18:29:35 <Adam_Page> ... so made this WPT test to record
18:29:49 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page: I’ll review
18:30:35 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: wpt#49552
18:30:42 <Adam_Page> ... we talked about this last week
18:31:00 <Adam_Page> ... no other reviews needed
18:31:23 <Adam_Page> jcraig: I’ve got a minor comment for scotto
18:31:26 <Adam_Page> scotto: I’ll review
18:31:42 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
18:31:42 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> [accname] Explicitly state UAs must ignore “aria-label” for slots https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2385 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:31:56 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: new PR from a couple weeks ago
18:32:14 <Adam_Page> ... keithamus volunteered to look into it
18:32:28 <Adam_Page> ... let’s skip for now and talk with him at the next opportunity
18:32:32 <Adam_Page> scotto: I agree
18:32:38 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
18:32:38 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, Adam_Page
18:32:42 <Adam_Page> zakim, close this item
18:32:42 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
18:32:43 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:32:43 <Zakim> 5. -> [AriaNotify] Naming for the priority property https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2333 [from agendabot]
18:32:47 <Adam_Page> zakim, next item
18:32:47 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> [AriaNotify] Naming for the priority property https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2333 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:33:00 <Adam_Page> spectranaut_: this is the last topic so we can bikeshed
18:33:09 <Adam_Page> alisonmaher: I opened to look for strong opinions
18:33:22 <Adam_Page> ... for naming of priority in AriaNotify
18:33:37 <Adam_Page> ... do we want closer mapping to aria-live?
18:33:50 <Adam_Page> ... I’m of the notion that we should keep separate naming
18:33:53 <Adam_Page> ... any objections?
18:35:00 <Adam_Page> jcraig: I think `none` and `important` are better than `polite` and `assertive`
18:35:30 <Adam_Page> ... `none` is different than `polite`, so there could be a potential issue there
18:35:36 <Adam_Page> alisonmaher: yeah, they don’t directly correlate
18:35:57 <jamesn> q+
18:35:58 <Adam_Page> ... `none` is basically saying “not important”
18:36:06 <Adam_Page> ... low priority
18:36:14 <Adam_Page> jcraig: since priority is optional
18:36:19 <Adam_Page> ... what if we just had an important value
18:36:37 <smockle> q+
18:37:00 <Adam_Page> ... we currently have an aria-live value of `off` where the announcements don’t occur unless the user is focused on the element
18:37:01 <Adam_Page> ... like a timer
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18:37:23 <scott> present+
18:37:50 <spectranaut_> q+ matt
18:38:02 <spectranaut_> ack jamesn
18:38:08 <Adam_Page> s/scotto/scott/
18:39:02 <Adam_Page> jamesn: should we do some intelligent fallback if someone specifies aria-live of assertive or polite or any unrecognized value
18:39:10 <Adam_Page> jcraig: a warning in the console can address that
18:39:13 <jamesn> ack me
18:39:18 <hdv> q+
18:39:31 <spectranaut_> ack smockle
18:39:58 <Adam_Page> smockle: re: jcraig’s suggestion to collapse important to a single value, doesn’t that prevent us from adding more granular classifications in the future?
18:40:28 <Adam_Page> jcraig: not suggesting a single boolean, just a single named value with a fallback to null as a default
18:40:33 <Adam_Page> ... but not a strong preference
18:40:37 <scott> q+
18:40:46 <Adam_Page> ... only because `aria-live="off"` was often misinterpreted
18:41:00 <Adam_Page> ... but if consensus is `none`, that’s fine
18:41:08 <spectranaut_> ack matt
18:42:05 <Adam_Page> Matt: in current aria-live, do you have to remove aria-live completely to toggle between the two behaviors?
18:42:18 <Adam_Page> jcraig: yes, I think you have to remove it
18:42:27 <smockle> s/collapse important/collapse priority
18:42:48 <Adam_Page> Matt: thinking about user controls where, as a user, it’d be good to have values to represent the 3 possible behaviors
18:43:15 <Adam_Page> ... 1) the element is changing, but you only want it announced if you have focus
18:43:27 <Adam_Page> ... 2) the element is changing, and you want it announced even if you’re not focused
18:43:31 <smockle> s/collapse important/collapse priority/
18:43:35 <Adam_Page> ... 3) the element is changing, and you _don’t_ want it announced
18:43:55 <hdv> q-
18:43:59 <Adam_Page> jcraig: for scenario #1, could be solved by having it be a focusable element
18:44:05 <Adam_Page> ... but can’t always anticipate the AT focus
18:44:22 <Adam_Page> ... web author could do that based on activeElement
18:44:41 <Adam_Page> ... the value `none` just seems more similar in semantics to the `off` value than it does the `polite` value
18:45:00 <Adam_Page> ... but alisonmaher might be right that we don’t need the `off` behavior for ariaNotify
18:45:28 <Adam_Page> alisonmaher: yes, but for verbiage do you think null would be clearer than `none`?
18:45:47 <spectranaut_> ack scott
18:46:11 <Adam_Page> scott: if we were to have another value besides `important`, I’d want it to default to “low”
18:46:21 <Adam_Page> ... `none` sounds similar to `off` and `null` sound like “not applicable”
18:46:38 <smockle> q+
18:46:40 <Adam_Page> alisonmaher: yeah, maybe “high priority” and “low priority” are better
18:46:54 <spectranaut_> ack smockle
18:47:00 <Adam_Page> smockle: I like high and low
18:47:06 <Adam_Page> ... how about “now” or “later”?
18:47:23 <Adam_Page> alisonmaher: it’s not guaranteed that “later” won’t actually occur _now_, in reality
18:47:30 <Adam_Page> Matt: yeah, “how much later?”
18:48:12 <Adam_Page> jamesn: have we tried ChatGPT? 😉
18:48:42 <sarah> https://www.aiweirdness.com/halloween-candy/
18:49:00 <Adam_Page> zakim, end meeting
18:49:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pkra, giacomo-petri, filippo-zorzi, katez, Adam_Page, Francis_Storr, alisonmaher, spectranaut_, hdv, smockle, sarah, scott
18:49:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:49:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/12-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:49:11 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Adam_Page; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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