19:02:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
19:02:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/10-aria-apg-irc
19:02:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
19:02:05 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
19:02:12 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
19:02:14 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
19:02:17 <jugglinmike> present+ howard-e
19:02:18 <Jem> Jem has joined #aria-apg
19:02:22 <jugglinmike> present+ Matt_King
19:02:49 <Jem> present+ jemma
19:03:10 <Matt_King> present+
19:03:59 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page has joined #aria-apg
19:04:26 <jugglinmike> present+ Adam_Page
19:05:37 <jugglinmike> present+ dmontalvo
19:06:44 <jugglinmike> Topic: Setup and Review Agenda
19:08:27 <jugglinmike> present+ lola
19:08:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Is there any utility in meeting next week?
19:09:04 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I might not be available
19:09:25 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: My tendency is to cancel next week. That would mean we had three weeks off and plan to meet again on January 7
19:09:42 <jugglinmike> Jem: I love canceling meetings
19:10:04 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Alright then, hearing no objections, I will cancel that meeting
19:10:24 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Our next meeting will be Tuesday, January 7, 2025
19:11:00 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Regarding today's agenda: we currently have four topics. Are there any requests for changes?
19:11:08 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with what we've goti
19:11:11 <jugglinmike> s/goti/got/
19:11:19 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
19:11:19 <jugglinmike> Topic: Publication planning
19:11:25 <jugglinmike> present+ jongund
19:11:39 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There's one pull request I need to merge. That's "multi thumb slider"
19:11:51 <jugglinmike> Jem: I still need to test the rail feature. I will do that today
19:11:53 <jongund> present+ jongund
19:12:16 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The other thing in this milestone is the practice page for high-contrast. We'll talk about that in a minute
19:12:23 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: And there are two things which are already merged
19:12:40 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So it may be a small release--maybe three or four patches
19:13:02 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: howard-e can you create the pull request on Thursday morning? That would give us time to land the high-contrast patch
19:13:09 <jugglinmike> howard-e: That works for me
19:13:19 <jugglinmike> dmontalvo: The problem with that is that our colleague is based in Europe
19:13:33 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So it's almost better if we make it Wednesday afternoon, then
19:13:43 <jugglinmike> dmontalvo: That, or morning in EST
19:14:06 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm sure Wednesday afternoon is still preferable, though. howard-e, let's make it tomorrow afternoon in your time zone
19:14:10 <jugglinmike> howard-e: Sure, that works for me
19:14:27 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: In that case, it's very likely to be only three of these four items, but we'll see
19:15:07 <jugglinmike> Topic: PR 2991 - Practice Page for Supporting High Contrast
19:15:15 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991
19:15:23 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Thank you for all the commits last Tuesday, jongund!
19:15:27 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: All the checks are passing
19:15:38 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We requested review from three people. None of those reviews are in, yet
19:16:09 <jugglinmike> Adam_Page: I reviewed and requested changes just a few minutes ago
19:16:27 <jugglinmike> Jem: I plan to review after this meeting
19:16:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think this depends on the nature of the feedback. I personally haven't spent the time on this that I planned on spending
19:17:27 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'd like to commit to a specific time for making a merge decision on this pull request (to determine whether it will be included in tomorrow's release)
19:17:57 <jugglinmike> Jem: (I wish that our Task Force had a way to announce a new release. This patch is a good candidate to highlight publicly.)
19:18:12 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'd love to talk about that. We can add a topic to today's agenda
19:18:50 <jugglinmike> s/I wish/By the way, I wish/
19:19:23 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If we make the decision at 1PM PT, then will that give you enough time to release, howard-e?
19:19:44 <jugglinmike> howard-e: Yes, I'm in eastern standard time. It will be 4PM for me, and that works
19:20:09 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
19:20:15 <dmontalvo> present- dmontalvo
19:20:29 <jugglinmike> Jem: I reviewed this a long time ago. Is there any specific aspect that I need to focus on as a reviewer?
19:21:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is the final review. Clarity, style, relevance of information. We want to make sure that the guidance we're giving is useful and actionable by our readers. It's got to be consistent with what we want in the APG but also something that authors can actually use in practice
19:23:01 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: More and more, I want to make sure we aren't stepping outside of our bounds. We shouldn't be trying to take the place of other important W3C resources. We should simply refer to those and remain focused on the APG's mission
19:24:16 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If we can get this merged by 1:00 tomorrow, we would like to include it in the next release. There are a lot of unknowns, though, and that includes me (i.e. whether I can fit it in among my other deadlines)
19:24:27 <jugglinmike> howard-e: For what it's worth, I can wait as late as 2:30 PM PST
19:24:43 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Thank you, howard-e! Given my meeting schedule, that extra time might be really helpful
19:26:24 <jugglinmike> Adam_Page: I have some additional thoughts about dark mode
19:26:44 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think we're looking for minimum-viable product here. We can always enhance later
19:26:53 <jugglinmike> Adam_Page: Yeah, that makes sense
19:28:23 <jugglinmike> Topic: Announcement of releases
19:28:50 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Something that we talked about doing last year but then did not do is a "year-end review" kind of blog post for W3C
19:29:08 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Jem, is that the kind of thing you were thinking about trying to call attention in APG, overall for 2024?
19:29:53 <jugglinmike> Jem: That's what I'm thinking. We used to send something out once a year by collaboration with W3C. I think you collaborated with them, Matt_King, sharing an overview of our accomplishment and context for how that serves our community
19:30:13 <dmontalvo> q+
19:30:28 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Yes, and a blog post can be disseminated across the community group e-mail list, Mastodon, Bluesky, etc.
19:30:39 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: What is the process like now, Daniel?
19:30:54 <jugglinmike> Daniel: Lately, we're seeing that blog posts don't have as much traction as they used to have
19:31:21 <jugglinmike> Daniel: we are advising other ways of promotion, really. The time and effort that it takes to put together a blog post (editors, comms team, etc)--it really doesn't pay off
19:31:40 <jugglinmike> Daniel: That said, if anyone feels strongly, we can support you. We might just need some explanation
19:32:15 <jugglinmike> Daniel: that said, we are redesigning pages on WAI where we can craft messages and announcements. We'll be able to maintain those much easier than we have in the past
19:32:41 <jugglinmike> Daniel: Once the team agrees what those will look like, we'll be circulating it throughout the groups
19:32:52 <Jem> https://www.w3.org/WAI/update/
19:32:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That sounds like what we need! Do you have any sense of the timeline?
19:33:16 <jugglinmike> Daniel: It will be something that will probably happen in the first quarter of 2025
19:33:22 <Jem>  we used above page to share info about APG work tow years ago
19:33:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That might be the answer we're looking for--even better than a blog post, we'll have the ability to make announcements multiple times a year with relatively lightweight process
19:34:44 <jugglinmike> Daniel: What we're working on will be complimentary to the page Jem has shared.
19:35:08 <jugglinmike> Daniel: The new system will be less about what we've done and more about what we plan to do
19:35:29 <jugglinmike> Daniel: So that may not be as appropriate for the kind of 2024 retrospective you are discussing today
19:35:41 <jugglinmike> Jem: do you have specific information about the platform?
19:35:48 <Jem> https://www.w3.org/WAI/news/
19:35:55 <jugglinmike> Daniel: It's either a wiki page on the W3C website or on the GitHub repository
19:36:31 <jugglinmike> Daniel: We're thinking of reducing the WAI pages to the minimum and then just pointing to whatever the Task Forces or Working Group decide they wish to use
19:37:03 <jugglinmike> Jem: Maybe this is another place we can post the information https://www.w3.org/WAI/news/
19:37:47 <jugglinmike> Daniel: I've been talking about the announcements, promotions, etc. We could decide as a group whether they are on GitHub or on the W3C wiki.
19:38:32 <jugglinmike> Daniel: I think, for us, it would make more sense to use our main repo... But that's probably for future discussion
19:38:47 <Jem> This is the wiki page https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Main_Page
19:38:47 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We could use our wiki today and then share a link on social networks
19:39:12 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I was thinking of the GitHub wiki, actually
19:39:25 <Jem> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki
19:39:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We can put something on there any time we want. It won't be noticed unless we socialize it, but we could do that
19:40:01 <jugglinmike> Daniel: The difference would be that, today, there is no pointer from the WAI site to the information you published on the GitHub Wiki. In the future, that will be possible
19:40:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think it would be fine to make announcements on the GitHub Wiki today, and to just promote those via social media
19:41:08 <Jem> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Authoring-Practices-Change-Logs
19:41:36 <jugglinmike> Jem: What's the next step here?
19:41:58 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Craft a "year in review" page on the GitHub Wiki. Then, we can figure out where to promote that
19:42:38 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I guess that would be good for me to write. It's always nice to be able to point to something that says "look at what the task force did" when you're doing your own performance review!
19:42:48 <jugglinmike> Topic: Issue 3145 - Mailing list question about disclosures and pattern choice
19:42:50 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:42:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/10-aria-apg-minutes.html dmontalvo
19:42:59 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3145
19:43:33 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm not sure what to think of this particular issue. It says "see attached screenshots", but there's not a lot of information in the text of the message
19:43:50 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Is there anything useful we can say in response to this question based on the content of those screenshots?
19:44:16 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It sounds potentially not accessible that you enter text into an input and that fails to cause something to expand
19:44:48 <jugglinmike> Jem: I added a comment on October 15, explaining that the choices ultimately depend on the desired user interaction
19:45:02 <jugglinmike> [Jem reads her response]
19:46:25 <jugglinmike> Jem: This was reported on the mailing list, but I may not have copied my comment to the mailing list
19:46:45 <jugglinmike> Jem: Actually, I did in fact send that as an e-mail
19:46:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It sounds like your explanation sufficiently addressed the question
19:47:00 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So I think we can close this
19:47:29 <jugglinmike> Topic: Issue 3146 - Mailing list question about select drop downs
19:47:51 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3146
19:48:13 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is another question from the mailing list
19:48:24 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't know if there's enough information in this issue to answer the question
19:48:44 <jugglinmike> Jem: The reporter is asking if there are any examples of a select drop-down
19:48:57 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There are no screen shots or additional words, right?
19:49:01 <jugglinmike> Jem: no
19:49:47 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't know what they mean by "select drop-down." Well, we have a select-only combobox, we have the action menu button. There's a menu in the toolbar, as well. We also have listbox examples
19:49:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't know what else they would like
19:50:14 <jugglinmike> Jem: They may be asking about the select-only combobox...
19:50:47 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It says "the nearest pattern seems to be the combobox". I don't know if they looked at the "select-only combobox"
19:51:02 <jugglinmike> jongund: Can we just ask for the specific URL?
19:51:24 <jugglinmike> Jem: It feels a little like we're serving as a help desk here
19:51:36 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Yes. I don't know what they're looking for that we don't offer
19:52:09 <jugglinmike> Jem: I can mention that there is a select-only combobox
19:52:19 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There's also the menu button and the list box
19:53:04 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I guess there isn't anything else for us to add, then
19:54:41 <jugglinmike> Jem: Maybe we should not add everything from the mailing list to the GitHub issue tracker
19:55:15 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This seems like they might be asking if we have a specific kind of example, but it's not clear how what they're asking for is different from what we already offer
19:55:47 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So lets point them to the three patterns we have which address this type of interaction. We can tell them that if they're looking for something different from one of those, then they would need to be more specific about the differences
19:56:09 <jugglinmike> Jem: I'm writing a comment to that effect
19:57:13 <jugglinmike> s/that effect/that effect, now/
19:58:49 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
19:58:50 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, howard-e, Matt_King, jemma, Adam_Page, dmontalvo, lola, jongund, Daniel
19:58:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
19:58:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/10-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
19:59:00 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
19:59:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
19:59:28 <jugglinmike> RRSAgent, leave
19:59:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items