15:59:43 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:59:47 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/12/05-tt-irc 15:59:47 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:59:48 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 16:03:47 Present: Nigel, Andreas 16:04:06 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/296 16:04:36 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-tt-minutes.html 16:05:12 Regrets: Gary 16:05:15 Chair: Nigel 16:05:18 scribe: nigel 16:05:40 Topic: This meeting 16:06:47 Present+ Atsushi 16:07:43 Present+ Cyril 16:08:40 atai has joined #tt 16:08:49 Regrets+ Chris_Needham 16:09:02 Nigel: Today we have DAPT, IMSC1.3 and Charter 16:09:16 .. Any other business, or points or points to make sure we cover? 16:09:37 Atsushi: None from me 16:09:51 Topic: DAPT 16:10:01 Subtopic: CR publication status 16:10:19 atsushi: During my previous meeting with i18n, there was no issue with DAPT delta. 16:10:47 .. I am still pushing for security. I am mostly offline this week and will try to catch up with emails later, sorry. 16:11:16 Nigel: Key point: you haven't raised the transition request? 16:11:48 Atsushi: I haven't, no, but I will push for security. 16:12:00 Nigel: If they are not responding, I think we should push ahead. 16:12:08 Cyril: I agree. Are they only reviewing the delta? 16:12:54 Atsushi: The delta and the security section. 16:13:01 Cyril: What is the delta? 16:13:15 Nigel: Nothing significant, for me. The security section just points to TTML2. 16:13:24 Cyril: I think we should proceed, it's taken a long time already. 16:13:42 Nigel: Can we put a time limit on it, or can plh? 16:14:18 atsushi: I don't want to wait more than several weeks. I will try to catch up with email and send something to plh shortly. 16:14:20 Nigel: OK. 16:14:36 .. Anything else for CR publication? 16:14:48 nothing 16:15:22 Subtopic: Implementation Report 16:15:30 Nigel: No change to the IR since last meeting 16:15:38 Subtopic: Issues and pull requests for discussion 16:16:00 Nigel: 2 pull requests marked as agenda 16:16:14 Subtopic: Add an XSD w3c/dapt#273 16:16:21 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/273 16:16:38 Nigel: I opened this PR on 15th November 16:16:50 .. It adds an XML Schema 1.0 XSD to the DAPT repo 16:17:00 .. No change to the spec. Not normative, just editorial. 16:17:05 .. But useful nonetheless. 16:17:28 .. Cyril, you tried it and found some issues, which I think I've fixed. 16:17:35 .. How's it looking? 16:17:46 Cyril: I haven't had a chance to test the latest fixes but they probably will work. 16:18:00 .. My feedback is: I misunderstood at first when I looked at the folder. 16:18:11 .. I thought the TTML ones were pure copies, but you've actually modified them. 16:18:34 .. Would be good to have a README or a description. 16:18:41 Nigel: I actually added a README for that exact reason! 16:18:47 Cyril: Oh, fine, I should have looked! 16:19:09 Nigel: I agree, it could catch people out. 16:19:26 .. Also the need to check out recursively because it uses a git submodule for the EBU-TT metadata. 16:19:54 Cyril: Does that have an example or a list of tools that could be used? 16:20:07 .. I used XMLLint and it would not recognise some constructs in the XSD so I had to change. 16:20:16 Nigel: Do you know what it didn't recognise? 16:20:38 Cyril: There was a dapt.xsd and a dapt-all.xsd, and the dapt-all uses a mix of include and import. 16:20:43 .. I had to use the dapt.xsd. 16:22:30 Nigel: Ah, dapt-all brings other XSDs in by namespace alone and depends on your tool config. 16:22:42 .. Maybe we should remove dapt-all. 16:22:54 Cyril: Would it produce false positives or false negatives? 16:23:08 Nigel: If your tool is configured to point at the unmodified TTML XSDs for the TTML namespace then 16:23:22 .. it might successfully validate constructs that are prohibited in DAPT. 16:24:58 Cyril: I'd agree with your suggestion to remove dapt-all then. 16:25:15 Nigel: I used XSD 1.0 because there are more free tools available that use it. 16:25:29 .. It's restricted compared to XSD 1.1 and makes it harder to constrain or apply additional rules 16:25:34 .. based on an unmodified TTML XSD. 16:29:58 SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to remove dapt-all and modify the README to match 16:30:37 [group discussion of the merits of different types of validation tool] 16:30:48 Cyril: For the community in general, a validation tool is super useful. 16:31:14 Nigel: Very much so, and Ben Poor from EBU's Eurovox used the XSD to find an issue with some DAPT 16:31:27 .. that the tool was generating, so it showed its value within a day. 16:32:45 Subtopic: Issue 0274 xml id editorial improvements w3c/dapt#275 16:32:57 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/275 16:34:44 Nigel: Going back to Ben from Eurovox's feedback (see https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/273#issuecomment-2520849607) 16:35:02 .. which included an unprompted comment that the spec is well written and easy to read and implement, 16:35:15 .. he did note that he missed xml:id because it was absent from the examples, 16:35:29 .. and he wouldn't have noticed that it cannot begin with a digit, say. 16:35:44 .. So I opened the issue and this pull request to help others avoid falling into the same trap. 16:38:20 .. Would be good to get a review because I think this would be helpful for people. 16:38:34 Cyril: I will try to do that. 16:38:57 .. What's the procedure, should we merge the editorial changes in before the transition request? 16:39:09 Atsushi: The transition request will use the latest version of the draft. 16:39:21 Cyril: OK, and we're allowed to do that because there was no substantive change since the CfC? 16:39:43 Atsushi: I believe so. Of course the CfC could be resolved in 1 week or so, so we could reissue the decision 16:39:54 .. but we don't have substantive change since last time. 16:40:06 Nigel: Right, we have no proposals for a substantive change, 16:40:21 .. Plus, our working mode for the group is that pull requests _are_ a form of CfC, 16:40:51 .. that's why we have the 2 week review period, and do not merge if there are Requests Changes reviews 16:40:53 .. outstanding. 16:41:05 atai has joined #tt 16:42:28 .. My plan is, if we merge these pull requests before the transition request, 16:42:44 .. then I will rebase the transition request branch to include the merged changes, 16:43:03 .. and as long as they are only editorial, and not substantive, then I do not think any further 16:43:11 .. action or consultation should be needed. 16:43:39 .. It would be the same as issuing a CRD (CR Draft) after the CR, but avoiding an admin step. 16:44:00 SUMMARY: @cconcolato to review 16:44:49 Topic: IMSC 1.3 - actions to get started? 16:45:03 Nigel: Deferring this since Pierre has not been able to join us today 16:45:08 Topic: Charter 2025 16:45:21 Nigel: I've had no comments on the Charter pull request. 16:45:35 .. Chris Needham has offered to take a look at it also. 16:46:21 .. I think the action is with Atsushi to review in comparison with the charter template. 16:46:28 .. Not a high priority now, at least not urgent. 16:46:32 .. I'm just trying to get ahead! 16:48:12 Topic: Meeting Close 16:48:18 Nigel: We've completed our agenda. 16:48:32 .. Next meeting will be on the 19th December, last one of this calendar year. 16:48:51 .. I have cancelled the meeting scheduled for 2nd January 2025, so the first meeting in 2025 16:48:57 .. will be on January 16th. 16:49:04 .. Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting] 16:49:08 rrsagent, make minutes 16:49:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:52:07 s/atsushi/Atsushi/g 16:52:27 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:52:30 zakim, end meeting 16:52:30 As of this point the attendees have been Nigel, Andreas, Atsushi, Cyril 16:52:32 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 16:52:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/12/05-tt-minutes.html Zakim 16:52:40 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 16:52:40 Zakim has left #tt 16:53:03 rrsagent, excuse us 16:53:03 I see no action items