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15:48:38 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-pcg-a11y-irc
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15:48:55 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
15:48:55 <Zakim> ok, AvneeshSingh
15:49:06 <AvneeshSingh> present+
15:49:16 <AvneeshSingh> chair: AvneeshSingh
15:50:07 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Editorial Feedback for the ONIX/EPUB Techniques Document: Issue #471 and #470
15:50:32 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Make image descriptions more visible in accessibility metadata display: Issue #474
15:50:50 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Sentence construction for translations: Issue #460
15:51:13 <George> George has joined #pcg-a11y
15:51:16 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Certfied or Evaluated?: Issue #473 and #472
15:51:33 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Creation of negative claims: Issue #461
15:51:56 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ ONIX technique for List 196 Code 99: issue #468
15:52:03 <George> present+
15:52:15 <AvneeshSingh> agenda+ Short term goals and next steps.
16:00:21 <JonasLillqvist> JonasLillqvist has joined #pcg-a11y
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16:01:06 <gpellegrino> present+
16:02:56 <gautierchomel> present+
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16:03:09 <gautierchomel> scribe+ gautierchomel
16:03:11 <rickj> present+
16:03:12 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
16:03:12 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Editorial Feedback for the ONIX/EPUB Techniques Document: Issue #471 and #470 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
16:03:30 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pcg-a11y
16:03:31 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/471
16:03:43 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/470
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16:04:42 <gautierchomel> George: I went thru it and made three atomic issues to make response easier.
16:04:58 <CharlesL2> CharlesL2 has joined #pcg-a11y
16:05:12 <gpellegrino> +1 to reduce notes
16:05:27 <gautierchomel> +1 to reduce notes
16:05:48 <CharlesL2> +1
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16:06:47 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:06:52 <jgriggs_prh> present+
16:07:00 <Madeleine> present+
16:07:26 <gautierchomel> George: 476, 478 and 479. I have questions in 478. Waiting for responses.
16:08:51 <gautierchomel> George: we could make the three changes identified and open a new issue about the questions I have about conformance.
16:08:57 <gpellegrino> q+
16:09:09 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:09:36 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
16:09:36 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Make image descriptions more visible in accessibility metadata display: Issue #474 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
16:09:41 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: if we don't close 470 and 471, we should be clear in the comments that we are discussing in other issues.
16:09:59 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/474
16:11:53 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:12:26 <gautierchomel> q+
16:12:48 <AvneeshSingh> ack gaut
16:14:05 <gpellegrino> q+
16:14:27 <CharlesL2> q+
16:14:36 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:15:26 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel: I like the idea but we should consider possible side effects for ebooks with two logos and a cover.
16:15:31 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
16:15:34 <George> q+
16:15:46 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: I can split the issue to facilitate separate resolution.
16:16:19 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:16:24 <AvneeshSingh> ack george
16:16:26 <gautierchomel> CharlesL2: on our side we don't recomand to add that information if there are few images, only if there are relevant images where alt text is important.
16:17:30 <gpellegrino> q+
16:17:31 <gautierchomel> George: we should also separate alt text from dteailed descriptions. We also need to look at all things that impact localization strings.
16:17:31 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:17:41 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:18:23 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: from the technique point of view we can not filter alt text per image type.
16:19:49 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:20:27 <gpellegrino> q+
16:20:40 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:21:12 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
16:21:12 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Sentence construction for translations: Issue #460 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
16:21:35 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/460
16:22:09 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:22:13 <gautierchomel> q+
16:22:15 <gpellegrino> q+
16:22:24 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:22:51 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:22:54 <George> q+
16:23:03 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel: concatenating was a good idea but does not pass the reality check.
16:23:48 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: we'll have some rephrasing to do and probably using more listing to not end with thousands of strings.
16:24:01 <CharlesL2> q+
16:24:10 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:24:13 <JonasLillqvist> q+
16:24:24 <AvneeshSingh> ack george
16:25:15 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:25:32 <gautierchomel> George: Simpler approach is a list of features with short sentences. Will ease the techniques too.
16:25:40 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
16:26:55 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:27:50 <gautierchomel> JonasLillqvist: that will also align compact and descriptive sentences.
16:28:13 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:28:50 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: editors will have to meet twice a week to achieve that quick.
16:29:16 <gautierchomel> rickj: probably the good deadline would be to have this for begining of january.
16:31:23 <gautierchomel> George: some more issues are easy to take. Do I have the freedom to make those changes ? I'll open PRs so it can be reviewed.
16:32:52 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:33:47 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
16:33:47 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Certfied or Evaluated?: Issue #473 and #472 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
16:34:10 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/473
16:34:12 <gpellegrino> scribe+
16:34:20 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/472
16:34:41 <gpellegrino> gautierchomel: first I tried to explain how it is difficult to translate "certification"
16:35:29 <gpellegrino> ... and then I realized that even in EPUB Accessibility 1.1 another wording is used
16:35:39 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:35:54 <gpellegrino> ... I think that at the end we should differentiate the working when there is certifier credentials
16:36:00 <gpellegrino> ... and when it's not present
16:37:19 <George> q+q+
16:38:17 <mgarrish> q+
16:38:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:40:13 <gautierchomel> George: certifier establishs a criteria more detailed. An exemple is the alt text lenght or quality. Certifier is not only evaluating.
16:40:19 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:42:03 <gautierchomel> mgarrish: safer language is evaluator, then credential appears to specify the quality of the evaluation.
16:42:29 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:42:51 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: ISO has it's own certification, that's why they wanted to change the wording to evaluation.
16:43:52 <gautierchomel> AvneeshSingh: we should wait for a statement from the organisation making use of certifier credential.
16:43:59 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:45:56 <gautierchomel> George: my concern is that the word certification has an influence in the marketplace. It means more than evaluated.
16:46:31 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:46:56 <gautierchomel> q+
16:47:13 <CharlesL2> q+
16:48:21 <AvneeshSingh> ack gaut
16:50:06 <gpellegrino> q+
16:50:27 <AvneeshSingh> ack charl
16:50:36 <gautierchomel> rickj: in the US market, appart from benetech we don't see other certified by.
16:51:23 <AvneeshSingh> ack next
16:52:05 <gautierchomel> gpellegrino: in ONIX we have different fields to manage this, like trusted intermediary.
16:53:03 <AvneeshSingh> q?
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16:54:54 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, next agendum
16:54:54 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Creation of negative claims: Issue #461 -- taken up [from AvneeshSingh]
16:55:14 <gautierchomel> q+
16:55:23 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/461
16:55:23 <rickj> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/a11y-meta-display-guide/2.0/draft/techniques/onix-metadata/#instructions-3
16:55:54 <rickj> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/a11y-meta-display-guide/2.0/draft/techniques/epub-metadata/#instructions-3
16:56:28 <rickj> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/a11y-meta-display-guide/2.0/draft/guidelines/#order-of-key-information
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16:56:43 <Hadrien> present+
16:57:26 <AvneeshSingh> q?
16:57:38 <AvneeshSingh> ack gaut
16:57:39 <gautierchomel> rickj: we won't create claims of absence or negative claims.
16:59:03 <rickj> I will write up what I said and add it to issue #461
16:59:13 <AvneeshSingh> q?
17:00:30 <AvneeshSingh> q?
17:05:30 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/21-pcg-a11y-minutes.html AvneeshSingh
17:05:40 <AvneeshSingh> rrsagent, make logs public
17:06:34 <AvneeshSingh> zakim, leave
17:06:34 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AvneeshSingh, George, gpellegrino, gautierchomel, rickj, jgriggs_prh, Madeleine, Hadrien
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