15:07:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
15:07:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-irc
15:07:44 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2
15:10:28 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:11:10 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
15:11:22 <kaz> s/Slot 2/Slot 1/
15:11:50 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Jan_Romann, Luca_Barbato,Cristiano_Aguzzi, Kunihiko_Toumura
15:12:04 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
15:12:14 <EgeKorka_> EgeKorka_ has joined #wot-td
15:13:19 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:13:29 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
15:13:31 <EgeKorka_> scribenick: EgeKorkan
15:14:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:14:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:14:59 <EgeKorka_> test
15:15:09 <kaz> scribenick: EgeKorkan_
15:15:23 <kaz> scribenick: EgeKorka_
15:15:41 <kaz> chair: Ege
15:16:04 <EgeKorka_> topic: Minutes Review
15:16:06 <kaz> present+ Ege_Korkan
15:16:15 <EgeKorka_> https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html
15:16:49 <kaz> s|https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html Nov-13|
15:17:05 <EgeKorka_> ek: anything to change?
15:17:28 <EgeKorka_> ek: minutes are approved
15:17:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:17:36 <EgeKorka_> q?
15:17:41 <kaz> s/test//
15:17:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:17:55 <EgeKorka_> topic: Initial Connection
15:18:37 <EgeKorka_> ek: we should have it for next week to have implementation experience
15:19:13 <EgeKorka_> ek: we should not call it like this in the spec
15:19:39 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#November_20-21%2C_2024
15:19:55 <EgeKorka_> ek: we thought to not introduce it so much in the intro section
15:20:01 <EgeKorka_> ... any opinions?
15:20:25 <EgeKorka_> ek: I worked on the hackmd document with luca
15:20:27 <EgeKorka_> ... https://hackmd.io/mV9KjUC9QpOizp9kaDjqZw#
15:20:54 <EgeKorka_> ek: We improved the documentation section
15:21:04 <EgeKorka_> ... like specification language
15:21:12 <kaz> s|... https://hackmd.io/mV9KjUC9QpOizp9kaDjqZw#|-> https://hackmd.io/mV9KjUC9QpOizp9kaDjqZw# Initial Connection Proposal (on hackmd)|
15:22:20 <EgeKorka_> ek: (talks about the content in the document)
15:23:28 <kaz> [ specifically the "Documentation" section ]
15:24:41 <EgeKorka_> ek: following the securityDefinitions mechanism, we want to apply it to anything that can be defaulted
15:25:57 <EgeKorka_> ek: If it is a string, it is a reference. If it is an object, it is inline definition
15:27:22 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
15:27:27 <EgeKorka_> ek: What do you think of having a keyword "form" and "forms" at the Thing level at the same time
15:27:55 <kaz> i|following the|subtopic: Defaultable elements|
15:28:24 <kaz> i|If it is a st|subtopic: Inlineable fields|
15:28:39 <cris> q+
15:29:01 <kaz> i|What do you|subtopic: Thing-wide default|
15:29:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:29:32 <EgeKorka_> cris: I have point to make on forms vs form
15:29:47 <EgeKorka_> ... forms has the meta operations
15:30:01 <EgeKorka_> ... it can confuse people but it would be nicely consistent
15:30:21 <EgeKorka_> ... forms can be renamed
15:30:29 <EgeKorka_> ek: I was thinking of renaming forms
15:30:57 <kaz> s/forms has/"forms" has/
15:31:11 <kaz> s/forms vs form/"forms" vs "form"/
15:31:17 <EgeKorka_> ... multiple people are complaining about it
15:31:25 <kaz> s/forms can be/"forms" can be/
15:31:34 <kaz> s/renaming forms/renaming "forms"/
15:31:43 <EgeKorka_> cris: also scripting api is unclear about the meta operations
15:31:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:31:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:32:08 <EgeKorka_> ... so we can think about that form vs forms issue later on when we do a design overhaul of meta operations
15:32:25 <EgeKorka_> ek: any other opinions>
15:32:30 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
15:32:31 <EgeKorka_> s/>/?
15:32:35 <kaz> q+
15:32:48 <EgeKorka_> ack c
15:33:38 <EgeKorka_> kaz: we can continue this discussion. I personally wonder about the usage of form. Form makes a key component that makes a TD complicated
15:33:45 <kaz> ack k
15:33:48 <luca_barbato> q+
15:33:56 <cris> +1
15:34:09 <kaz> s/discussion. I/discussion, but I/
15:34:13 <EgeKorka_> kaz: I agree with Cris but we should be careful about form vs forms
15:34:27 <EgeKorka_> ek: I think we should put a big editor's note on that. It will be a transition process for sure
15:34:27 <kaz> s/of form/of "form" itself/
15:34:44 <kaz> s/Form makes/"form" makes/
15:34:57 <EgeKorka_> lb: meta operations aren't that useable right now since they are underdefined, I do not see a big issue
15:35:18 <kaz> s/form vs forms/"form" vs "forms"/
15:35:34 <EgeKorka_> ... we can also have another pattern like formDefinitions and formDefault
15:35:41 <EgeKorka_> ... as long as we are consistent, I am happy
15:36:38 <EgeKorka_> ek: there seems to be primary consensus on going with formDefinitions, form and forms
15:37:24 <luca_barbato> q+
15:38:03 <kaz> s/formDefinitions and formDefault/"formDefinitions" and "formDefault"/
15:38:34 <kaz> s/formDefinitions, form and forms/"formDefinitions", "form" and "forms"/
15:38:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:38:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:39:18 <kaz> subtopic: Elements
15:41:07 <EgeKorka_> ek: These are the preliminary rules about the relationship between the elements. They should be formalized
15:42:48 <EgeKorka_> ek: So the only new thing in the elements is form referring to connection, connection referring to security
15:42:50 <EgeKorka_> ... and everything can be defined inline
15:43:05 <EgeKorka_> cris: So do I have to define a connection in a form in order to use a connection
15:43:43 <luca_barbato> q+
15:50:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:50:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:51:32 <kaz> [ Ege shows the example at the "Examples" section. ]
15:52:52 <cris> q+
15:54:39 <EgeKorka_> ack l
15:57:25 <kaz> subtopic: Hw to combine with TMs
15:58:11 <kaz> [ We need to think about how this proposed mechanism would fit TMs. ]
15:58:31 <kaz> subtopic: Guidelines / Algorithm
15:58:40 <EgeKorka_> ek: These will be expanded later on
15:58:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:58:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:58:54 <luca_barbato> q+
15:58:55 <EgeKorka_> ek: AOB?
15:59:04 <kaz> i/AOB/topic: AOB/
15:59:25 <kaz> q+
15:59:28 <EgeKorka_> lb: do we agree on the basic mechanism?
15:59:28 <kaz> ack cr
15:59:36 <EgeKorka_> ack l
16:00:11 <EgeKorka_> kaz: this document is getting big. So we should copy it to markdown in the GitHub
16:01:23 <kaz> s/big/big but stable/
16:01:31 <kaz> s/copy it/copy it back/
16:01:35 <kaz> s/in the/on the/
16:01:36 <EgeKorka_> ek: Any diverging opinions on the basic mechanism?
16:01:39 <EgeKorka_> cris: +1
16:03:23 <EgeKorka_> ek: Should we keep the versions on GitHub?
16:03:41 <EgeKorka_> lb: We can open a clean PR and refer to the proposals in the old one
16:03:45 <EgeKorka_> ek: I will do that
16:03:58 <EgeKorka_> ek: AOB?
16:05:06 <kaz> [ none, and adjourned ]
16:05:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:24:02 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
16:31:31 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
17:37:26 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
17:38:08 <JKRhb_> JKRhb_ has joined #wot-td
17:42:03 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
17:43:41 <EgeKorka_> EgeKorka_ has joined #wot-td
17:49:59 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
18:08:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td
18:32:54 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
18:56:22 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
19:26:55 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
20:33:13 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
20:34:55 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
20:54:56 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
20:55:02 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
21:23:36 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
23:26:56 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
23:50:24 <EgeKorkan> EgeKorkan has joined #wot-td
23:55:46 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td