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15:54:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:54:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:54:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/66591f6b-6694-4f90-b23d-bf8f1b9dda8a/20241120T110000/
15:54:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
15:54:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
16:00:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
16:00:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
16:01:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ plh
16:02:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
16:04:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Limit the precision of floating point event fields https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/517
16:05:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: rob wanted to work on this, but it IS slightly non-trivial. see there's activity just today on it https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/517#issuecomment-2488663522
16:07:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: looking at the web animations wording, yes i think using wording of that nature, mentioning potential privacy issues, and then reiterating that again in the privacy section, might be the way to go
16:08:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we don't want to unnecessarily limit the precision IF a web application actually wants to take full advantage of precise sensors. looking at angles, even capping to 1 degree seems excessive
16:11:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: don't think Rob has had a chance, so I might take it off his hands and make a first stab at it. i envisage a separate section after all the values in the IDL (rather than mentioning it for each value). for position related things, saying it should at least resolve to hardware pixel. for others, might be a bit trickier. and explain the core concern here about fluctuations in sensors that are consistent and can be us[CUT]
16:11:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ingerprint
16:11:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to draft PR for #517
16:12:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: On that topic, it seems we're still waiting for wide review from security https://github.com/w3c/security-request/issues/67
16:13:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: Philippe, what's the process on this? can we leave it after various attempts to get it?
16:13:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: yes, you can time out
16:14:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: how long ago did you ask?
16:14:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: May
16:14:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PLH: then you can time out without chasing them up. if it comes to it later, we may ask them again, but for now, we can time it out
16:15:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: [touch actions] handwriting manipulation type to distinguish panning https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/516
16:16:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: Olga had some actions from the last meeting, no action from us at the moment
16:16:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: looks like there's a PR for their explainer, but it's still open
16:18:40 <smaug> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/pull/903
16:19:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Meta-issue: update WPT to cover Pointer Events Level 3 #445 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/445
16:19:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I think we're in a good place for this one https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=label%3Aneeds-wpt+
16:20:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: Rob has been working on #300 - have some background about it: test failed due to some fishy behaviour on Chromium side, should be an easy fix though
16:20:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: then for
16:21:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: #509 i looked earlier and added the "needs-wpt" label
16:21:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so might be good to look at this...
16:22:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Olli to review #509 for potential test
16:23:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Triage unlabelled issues https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Afuture+-label%3Av3++-label%3Av3-blocking
16:24:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: everything now is tagged with either "v3"/"v3-blocking" or "future" (with exception of the one issue #506 that is more administrative)
16:24:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: any issues we want to look at specifically?
16:24:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: nothing from me
16:25:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: from the list of blocking issues https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Av3-blocking
16:25:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/504
16:26:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: should just be a change to prose, nothing substantive
16:26:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: I can send a pull request next week
16:26:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Mustaq to submit PR for #504
16:26:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/513
16:27:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: that's the one I promised a PR for but didn't have time due to vacation
16:27:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: no problem
16:27:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Olli to look at #513
16:28:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: let's look at v3 in general https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Av3
16:28:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/509
16:28:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: sorry...revisiting the same...we discussed this earlier
16:29:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: there's this one that Mustaq reopened https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/457
16:30:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion on synthetic pointermove vs mousemove - should pointermove events be faked?]
16:31:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: should pointer events not send fake/synthetic events, even though in past authors may have relied on synthetic mouse events?
16:32:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: yes, that would be my preference, as it keeps pointer events nice and clear - you only get it when it actually moves
16:32:13 <smaug> https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerevent_pointerout_no_pointer_movement.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&view=interop&q=label%3Ainterop-2023-events
16:32:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: this is failing only in chromium
16:32:42 <smaug> https://wpt.fyi/results/uievents/mouse/layout_change_should_fire_mouseover.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned
16:33:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: this hints that webkit doesn't send any synthetic events, ever
16:33:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: I'd conclude the same
16:33:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: so do we want more consistency betwen mouse and pointer events, or keep PE clearer and better defined
16:34:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: need to check how to handle hover effect
16:34:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: should close issue #459 as there's too many concerns/discussions, and refocus on more specific issues
16:35:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Mustaq to file new issue as follow-up/successpr tp
16:35:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> s/ACTION: Mustaq to file new issue as follow-up/successpr tp/ACTION: Mustaq to file new issue as follow-up/successor to #549/
16:36:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Mustaq to file new issue as follow-up/successor to #549
16:36:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: would we want this v3-blocking?
16:36:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: depends how easy/hard it is. if it's only a small wording tweak and a test, might be good to get it in for v3
16:37:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: or should we continue on the same issue?
16:37:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: probably good to have one specifically about synthetic events in general
16:39:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: right, I think that covers all v3/v3-blocking things we need to discuss at this point. We can break early. Thank you as ever, we'll reconvene in 2 weeks' time
16:39:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, set logs world visible
16:39:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:39:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
16:41:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, bye
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to draft PR for #517 [1]
16:41:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-irc#T16-11-22
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Olli to review #509 for potential test [2]
16:41:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-irc#T16-22-56
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mustaq to submit PR for #504 [3]
16:41:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-irc#T16-26-28
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Olli to look at #513 [4]
16:41:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-irc#T16-27-22
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mustaq to file new issue as follow-up/successpr tp [5]
16:41:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-irc#T16-35-32
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mustaq to file new issue as follow-up/successor to #549 [6]
16:41:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-pointerevents-irc#T16-36-05