15:48:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #maturity
15:48:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-maturity-irc
15:48:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:48:48 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Fazio
15:49:10 <Fazio> meeting: Maturity Model Task Force
15:49:25 <Fazio> chair: David Fazio
15:50:05 <Fazio> Agenda+ New Business
15:50:05 <Fazio> Agenda+ Messaging update with Janina
15:50:05 <Fazio> Agenda+ Use Cases update with Stacey and Jennifer
15:50:05 <Fazio> Update on Github Issue #148 Resolution
15:50:05 <gb> /issues/148 -> #148
15:50:06 <Fazio> Agenda+ Update on Github Issue #226 Resolution
15:50:06 <Fazio> Agenda+ Github Issue #230 Proof Points Communication Tab (Excel) Duplication
15:50:06 <Fazio> Agenda+ Github Issue #231 Excel Workbook - Duplicate Proofpoint
15:50:06 <gb> /issues/226 -> #226
15:50:06 <gb> /issues/230 -> #230
15:50:06 <gb> /issues/231 -> #231
15:50:07 <Fazio> Agenda+ Github Issue #126 Update / NEWEST DLC Spreadsheet - Step 2
15:50:07 <gb> /issues/126 -> #126
15:56:51 <Fazio> present+
16:00:02 <janina> janina has joined #MATURITY
16:01:23 <NehaJ> NehaJ has joined #maturity
16:01:39 <Mark_Miller> Mark_Miller has joined #Maturity
16:03:32 <IrfanA> IrfanA has joined #maturity
16:03:38 <IrfanA> present+
16:04:01 <janina> PRESENT+
16:04:03 <Mark_Miller> Present+
16:04:05 <jkline> jkline has joined #maturity
16:04:08 <Fazio> present+
16:04:11 <Dr_Keith> Dr_Keith has joined #maturity
16:04:13 <jkline> present+
16:04:19 <NehaJ> present+
16:04:22 <Dr_Keith> Present+
16:04:25 <Sheri_B-H> Sheri_B-H has joined #maturity
16:04:30 <Sheri_B-H> present+
16:04:52 <Stacey> Stacey has joined #maturity
16:05:06 <Stacey> present+
16:05:18 <Darek> Darek has joined #maturity
16:05:57 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #maturity
16:06:06 <CharlesL> present+
16:06:32 <Sheri_B-H> scribe+
16:07:10 <janina> present+
16:07:12 <jkline> jkline has joined #maturity
16:07:15 <Darek> present+
16:07:41 <Sheri_B-H> Introductions, because we had new people
16:14:50 <Stacey> audio not working
16:19:30 <Mark_Miller> Mark_Miller has joined #Maturity
16:19:41 <Mark_Miller> Present+
16:20:36 <Sheri_B-H> janina explained interaction between APA and Maturity
16:22:04 <Sheri_B-H> zakim, next item
16:22:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- New Business -- taken up [from Fazio]
16:23:06 <stacey2> stacey2 has joined #Maturity
16:23:10 <stacey2> present+
16:24:23 <Sheri_B-H> Jeff (no longer on IRC) wants to include a disclaimer in the document that the single source of truth is the assessment tool, so every change to the tool doesn't require a document change
16:24:27 <janina> q+
16:24:39 <Sheri_B-H> q-
16:24:59 <Sheri_B-H> janina thinks it's a reasonable thing to do
16:25:02 <Sheri_B-H> ack
16:25:07 <Sheri_B-H> q
16:25:13 <Sheri_B-H> ack janina
16:25:42 <Mark_Miller> q+
16:25:52 <Sheri_B-H> janina Spreadsheet was a sanity check
16:26:15 <Sheri_B-H> janina the question will get asked
16:26:17 <Fazio> q+
16:27:16 <Dr_Keith> Dr_Keith has joined #maturity
16:27:27 <Sheri_B-H> q+
16:27:48 <Dr_Keith> q+
16:28:06 <Sheri_B-H> ack Mark_Miller
16:28:57 <Sheri_B-H> Mark_Miller his organization used the spreadsheet, it caused confusion because of lack of parity between the two.  Don't know that we need to retain parity.  Maybe the disclaimer would help make things clearer
16:28:57 <Fazio> q+
16:29:35 <Sheri_B-H> ack Sheri_B-H
16:29:49 <Fazio> If the publication isn't prescriptive and proof points are flexible and not necessarily in the note that makes the spreadsheet/tool problematic
16:29:55 <janina> scribe+
16:30:06 <janina> Sheri_B-H: Legal concept of incorporation by reference
16:30:14 <janina> Sheri_B-H: Lots of work to keep both sync'd
16:30:22 <Fazio> +1 Sheri
16:30:28 <janina> Sheri_B-H: we need to avoid those issues
16:30:42 <Sheri_B-H> ack Dr_Keith
16:31:15 <Sheri_B-H> Dr_Keith agrees with Mark_Miller - we should state the spreadsheet is a representative example.  Proof points can change, users can update
16:31:20 <Sheri_B-H> ack Fazio
16:32:21 <Sheri_B-H> Fazio we've always intended to not be presecriptive.  We can't create a spreadsheet that covers every case.  We don't tell people "how"
16:32:33 <Sheri_B-H> Fazio: used ACR as an example
16:32:51 <janina> q?
16:32:56 <janina> q+
16:33:29 <Sheri_B-H> janina we will publish 1.0, we seem to have an agreement that there needs to be a disclaimer
16:33:31 <Dr_Keith> q+
16:33:56 <NehaJ> ack janina
16:34:06 <Fazio> q+jkline
16:34:09 <Sheri_B-H> ack Janina
16:34:35 <Sheri_B-H> janina what is the goal of continuing to work on the spreadsheet after 1.0  We want to work on data collection
16:35:10 <Sheri_B-H> Sheri_B-H once we start working on the tool, we can't continue mucking in the spreadsheet
16:35:22 <Sheri_B-H> ack Dr_Keith
16:35:56 <Sheri_B-H> Dr_Keith important thing is we have an example of use
16:35:59 <Sheri_B-H> q+
16:36:07 <Fazio> +1 Dr Keith
16:36:25 <Fazio> q+
16:36:35 <Sheri_B-H> ack jkline
16:37:15 <Fazio> And scoring work was next after publication not necessarily spreadsheet
16:37:15 <Sheri_B-H> jkline: doesn't matter what the format is at the end of the day, what we are trying to do is to provide a system that will provide consistency across the industry but allow users to customize
16:38:04 <Sheri_B-H> jkline: document explains stuff well, but you can't use it to measure maturity.  That's the purpose of the spreadsheet and tool
16:38:31 <Fazio> proof points were never prescriptive
16:39:14 <Sheri_B-H> ack sheri
16:39:55 <CharlesL> q+
16:40:01 <janina> Sheri_B-H: aGWG has issued a "Store of Broken Things," containing all manner of WCAG violation
16:40:09 <janina> Sheri_B-H: Was being used to devel WCAG3
16:40:59 <janina> Sheri_B-H: So, I see that people can taylor to their needs, the proof points aren't perscriptive, but the SS is still just an example
16:41:10 <Sheri_B-H> ack fazio
16:41:43 <Sheri_B-H> Fazio spreadsheet is a means to an end, to provide guidance for scoring
16:41:56 <janina> q+ to ask whether we pub a SS when we go 1.0
16:42:08 <Sheri_B-H> fazio that was the next thing we were going to work on
16:43:02 <Dr_Keith> q+
16:43:21 <Sheri_B-H> ack CharlesL
16:43:45 <Sheri_B-H> CharlesL last week, higher ground had three different accessibility maturity models were presented
16:44:42 <Sheri_B-H> CharlesL Shuffle (someone's PhD these) california college (close to our dimensions and proofpoints).  Both used excel spreadsheets, they were very similar to ours
16:44:47 <Sheri_B-H> q+
16:45:08 <Sheri_B-H> ack janina
16:45:08 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask whether we pub a SS when we go 1.0
16:46:54 <Sheri_B-H> general agreement that the spreadsheet will be published with 1.0
16:47:04 <Sheri_B-H> janina how hard do we work to keep them in parity
16:47:49 <Sheri_B-H> janina assuming we are there, then we publish an APA note, does the spreadhsheet get published also?
16:48:16 <Sheri_B-H> Dr_Keith we have how to use guides with WCAG, doesn't that address the problem?
16:48:18 <Fazio> +1 doc K
16:48:51 <Sheri_B-H> ack Dr_Keith
16:49:01 <janina> q?
16:49:01 <Sheri_B-H> ack Sheri_B-H
16:49:04 <Fazio> ack jkline
16:49:04 <Sheri_B-H> ack jeff
16:49:45 <Fazio> w3c tool is an example not a requirement of wcag
16:49:56 <Sheri_B-H> jkline: To say we don't release tools is wrong, there is the validator
16:49:57 <Fazio> q+
16:50:19 <Sheri_B-H> jkline: without the spreadsheet, the maturity model narrative becomes a white paper
16:51:09 <Sheri_B-H> jkline: add language saying the assessment tool can be used as an example.  Then we don't have to keep them in sync
16:51:13 <Sheri_B-H> q
16:51:28 <janina> q?
16:51:35 <Sheri_B-H> ack Fazio
16:51:55 <Sheri_B-H> Fazio we aren't telling the people to use the spreadsheet, we are providing it as an example of how to use the maturity model
16:52:16 <Sheri_B-H> janina: we agreed the last call draft will include the spreadsheet
16:52:52 <Sheri_B-H> janina if we don't have them in parity, we can't have the last call
16:53:08 <Sheri_B-H> fazio we agreed to continue to evolve the spreadsheet after 1.0 was published
16:53:15 <Sheri_B-H> ack jkline
16:54:23 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #maturity
16:54:33 <Sheri_B-H> jkline: we handle the proof point discrepency in the narrative by including the disclaimer
16:55:28 <Sheri_B-H> Sheri_B-H: jeff's proposal aligns with what I said, because any changes in the spreadsheet are automatically absorbed into the narrative
16:56:35 <Sheri_B-H> no meeting on the 27th
16:57:12 <Sheri_B-H> Jkline to propose disclaimer language by Dec 2, and we will discuss on Dec 4
16:57:27 <Sheri_B-H> fazio: wider APA group will tell us whether this approach is a problem
16:57:58 <Sheri_B-H> janina: we need to finalize what is the relationship between the documents
16:58:35 <Sheri_B-H> jkline: also will propose where the language goes
16:58:58 <Sheri_B-H> zakim, end meeting
16:58:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Fazio, IrfanA, janina, Mark_Miller, jkline, NehaJ, Dr_Keith, Sheri_B-H, Stacey, CharlesL, Darek
16:59:01 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:59:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/20-maturity-minutes.html Zakim
16:59:09 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Sheri_B-H; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:59:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #maturity
16:59:27 <Sheri_B-H> excuse RRSAgent