IRC log of ag on 2024-11-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:33:13 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/19-ag-irc
15:33:18 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:33:19 [Zakim]
Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
15:33:25 [alastairc]
agenda?
15:33:35 [alastairc]
zakim, clear agenda
15:33:35 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
15:33:46 [alastairc]
agenda+ Intros and Annoucements
15:33:53 [alastairc]
agenda+ Keyboard wrap-up briefing
15:34:08 [alastairc]
agenda+ Issue 2296 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2296/files
15:34:49 [alastairc]
EN 301 549 Tool https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/219
15:34:55 [alastairc]
agenda+ EN 301 549 Tool https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/219
15:35:12 [alastairc]
agenda+ WCAG 3 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/129
15:35:26 [alastairc]
agenda+ WCAG3 - check acknowledgements
15:36:19 [alastairc]
agenda+ WCAG3 - definitions
15:36:23 [alastairc]
agenda+ WCAG3 - numbering
15:36:27 [alastairc]
agenda+ WCAG3 - scope (to web)
15:36:36 [alastairc]
agenda+ Sub-group break outs
15:36:39 [alastairc]
agenda?
15:45:47 [alastairc]
regrets: SteveF
15:45:53 [alastairc]
present: alastairc
15:45:55 [Chuck]
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15:45:57 [alastairc]
chair: alastairc
15:45:59 [Rachael]
present+
15:47:47 [alastairc]
regrets+ NatTarnoff
15:52:42 [Chuck]
regrets+ Jennifer Strickland
15:54:12 [GreggVan]
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15:55:24 [Francis_Storr]
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15:56:02 [ToddL]
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15:56:17 [ToddL]
present+
15:56:23 [ShawnT]
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15:57:05 [ShawnT]
present+
15:57:50 [ChrisLoiselle]
present+
15:59:26 [mgarrish]
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16:00:58 [giacomo-petri]
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16:01:22 [filippo-zorzi]
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16:01:39 [Jennie_Delisi]
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16:01:45 [Jennie_Delisi]
present+
16:02:00 [filippo-zorzi]
present+
16:02:03 [Chuck]
regrets+ Sarah Horton
16:02:07 [nina]
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16:02:20 [GN015]
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16:02:31 [bruce_bailey]
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16:02:39 [bruce_bailey]
present+
16:02:41 [wendyreid]
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16:02:42 [Ben_Tillyer]
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16:02:46 [Ben_Tillyer]
present+
16:02:51 [wendyreid]
present+
16:02:58 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:02:58 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jennie_Delisi
16:03:17 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:03:17 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose alastairc
16:03:21 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:03:21 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ToddL
16:03:30 [Azlan]
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16:03:32 [tiffanyburtin]
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16:03:39 [Azlan]
present+
16:03:40 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:03:40 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ChrisLoiselle
16:03:46 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:03:46 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ben_Tillyer
16:03:46 [DJ]
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16:03:51 [Francis_Storr]
present+
16:03:51 [DJ]
regrets+
16:03:52 [Ben_Tillyer]
exempt
16:03:56 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:03:56 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Azlan
16:03:59 [mbgower]
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16:04:08 [mbgower]
present+
16:04:10 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:04:10 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jennie_Delisi
16:04:13 [alastairc]
zakim, please pick a scribe
16:04:13 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose wendyreid
16:04:13 [ChrisLoiselle]
I'll do first hour. One second.
16:04:28 [ChrisLoiselle]
scribe: ChrisLoiselle
16:04:29 [tiffanyburtin]
present+
16:04:29 [wendyreid]
scribe+
16:04:45 [ljoakley1]
present+
16:04:54 [alastairc]
zakim, take up next item
16:04:54 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Intros and Annoucements -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:04:58 [ChrisLoiselle]
So Wendy it is?
16:05:07 [ChrisLoiselle]
thanks!
16:05:12 [ljoakley1]
is there a reason that we are not using the transcript feature of zoom?
16:05:19 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Anyone new or changed affiliation?
16:05:26 [alastairc]
zakim, take up next item
16:05:26 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, alastairc
16:05:30 [Makoto]
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16:05:32 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 2
16:05:32 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Keyboard wrap-up briefing -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:05:32 [Detlev]
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16:05:43 [bruce_bailey]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uE2WCxPmvNopdCbuZQm_-cGyEdxEouRmZ8UUIlyutoU/edit?tab=t.7tvvfbgqxbc#heading=h.xlqs7tqpmaam
16:05:51 [Makoto]
present+
16:05:52 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Briefings, Bruce can you do the Keyboard wrap-up?
16:06:03 [mgarrish]
present+
16:06:13 [wendyreid]
[screen sharing]
16:06:21 [julierawe]
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16:06:23 [wendyreid]
bruce_bailey: We started off with 5 closely related outcomes
16:06:23 [nina]
present+
16:06:25 [julierawe]
present+
16:06:27 [GreggVan]
present+
16:06:43 [wendyreid]
... we worked on them in the order given us and we've been meeting for a while
16:06:51 [wendyreid]
... running notes in the original document
16:07:01 [wendyreid]
... starting here with 6.2.1 comparable keyboard effort
16:07:05 [wendyreid]
... around 45 initial user needs
16:07:14 [wendyreid]
... divided amongst the 5 outcomes
16:07:34 [wendyreid]
... lots of redundancy, for the next iteration it may help to put these together
16:07:50 [wendyreid]
... the goal of the subgroup is to have something to publish
16:08:14 [Glenda]
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16:08:19 [wendyreid]
... there was an attempt also to break the document into tabs, in the navigation bar on the document everything is there and broken up
16:08:44 [wendyreid]
... we spent some time on a composite outcome and decision tree
16:08:44 [Gez]
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16:08:52 [wendyreid]
... going to focus now on the 5 we have
16:09:01 [wendyreid]
... 6.2.1 comparable keyboard effort
16:09:14 [Gez]
present+
16:09:27 [wendyreid]
... [reading the content of the outcome]
16:09:37 [Laura_Carlson]
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16:09:48 [wendyreid]
... one concern we have with this is that we need more research or put parameters around it
16:09:59 [wendyreid]
... two factors are comparable time or comparable keystrokes
16:10:13 [wendyreid]
... comparable keystrokes is tricky to compare to mouse actions
16:10:29 [wendyreid]
... there might be user testing to research that, how do you compare keystrokes to mouse actions?
16:10:37 [wendyreid]
... not feasible for the numbers to be 1:1
16:10:45 [wendyreid]
... keyboard access is very serial
16:10:52 [wendyreid]
... point and click is random access
16:11:12 [wendyreid]
... counting the actions is not similar to one another, but time taken would be relevant
16:11:26 [wendyreid]
... we wanted to put some parameters around how many keystrokes are reasonable for an action
16:11:53 [dan_bjorge]
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16:11:58 [wendyreid]
... trying to figure out what is the upper limit
16:12:14 [wendyreid]
... 10 keystrokes may not feel slow to some, but extreme to others
16:12:23 [kirkwood]
present+
16:12:35 [wendyreid]
... switch input, could feel onerous
16:12:44 [wendyreid]
... 6.2.2 consistent keyboard interaction
16:12:54 [wendyreid]
... [reading content of document]
16:13:22 [wendyreid]
... trying to determine what is "standard keyboard input" was a challenge
16:13:26 [Graham]
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16:13:31 [Graham]
present+
16:13:32 [wendyreid]
... difficult to document, especially over multiple platforms
16:13:37 [wendyreid]
... no decision tree for this one
16:13:45 [wendyreid]
... 6.2.3 custom keyboard commands
16:13:54 [wendyreid]
... change of name, wanted to make it clear what this was addressing
16:14:12 [wendyreid]
... this has a bit of overlap with 6.2.2, but spent more time here
16:14:21 [wendyreid]
... one thing we decided early on was to put this on the author
16:14:35 [wendyreid]
... they know what they are introducing, what they are making active
16:14:48 [wendyreid]
... decision tree for this one, linear and possible to go through all of the optiosn
16:15:02 [dan_bjorge]
present+
16:15:14 [wendyreid]
... not going to write out all default actions, [reads out content of document]
16:16:02 [wendyreid]
... one of the things here is that there are considerations for alternative means, don't want to rule out doing things like putting actions on divs
16:16:16 [wendyreid]
... if it's standard behaviour it doesn't need to be documented, but does if there is
16:16:22 [wendyreid]
... 6.2.4 keyboard
16:16:26 [wendyreid]
... big overarching outcome
16:16:34 [wendyreid]
... all user flows can be completed by keyboard entry
16:16:41 [wendyreid]
... [reads content of document]
16:17:14 [wendyreid]
... we did not get far with the decision tree, we were in the process of starting over
16:17:22 [wendyreid]
... 6.2.5 no keyboard trap
16:17:31 [wendyreid]
... straightforward, subset of keyboard only
16:17:37 [wendyreid]
... [reads document]
16:17:49 [wendyreid]
... decision tree is available for this one
16:18:34 [wendyreid]
... can navigate whole page, and can exit any element
16:18:39 [scott]
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16:18:57 [wendyreid]
... tab and shift-tab should have proper behaviours, but not identical/mirrored behaviours
16:19:03 [wendyreid]
... that's about it
16:19:19 [wendyreid]
... one more iteration could get something that could go into WCAG3, lots of work remaining
16:19:33 [GreggVan]
q+
16:19:39 [wendyreid]
alastairc: The keyboard group is restarting, so if there are any comments, please comment in the document
16:19:40 [alastairc]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uE2WCxPmvNopdCbuZQm_-cGyEdxEouRmZ8UUIlyutoU/edit?tab=t.7tvvfbgqxbc#heading=h.xlqs7tqpmaam
16:19:46 [alastairc]
ack GreggVan
16:19:51 [ljoakley1]
present+
16:20:02 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: Why did we not keep looking at the composite?
16:20:20 [wendyreid]
bruce_bailey: [missed that]
16:21:00 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: [go to the composite], these are the user needs
16:22:00 [wendyreid]
... one of the things I found in looking at this, we had all of the user needs
16:22:05 [wendyreid]
... they kept getting repeated
16:22:24 [wendyreid]
... we had multiple things that were talked about to solve the same problem
16:22:38 [wendyreid]
... looking at the tests in the decision tree, and the trees kept asking to do the same things
16:22:51 [wendyreid]
... same tests run multiple times
16:22:58 [wendyreid]
... what if we put it into one composite outcome
16:23:18 [wendyreid]
... grouping all of the requirements together into a single outcome, one goal
16:23:51 [wendyreid]
... then the user needs collapse into the groups
16:23:54 [kirkwood]
+1 to Gregg’s simplification
16:24:02 [wendyreid]
... and the decision tree and tests is one workflow
16:24:05 [wendyreid]
... more logical approach
16:24:19 [wendyreid]
... we haven't quite finished this, but it was a single pass through
16:24:46 [MJ]
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16:25:00 [wendyreid]
... there was one other one to mention, of all of the outcomes, expecting the number of commands to be same or equivalent has issues
16:25:25 [wendyreid]
... speed of random access will never be the same as serial access
16:25:38 [wendyreid]
... asking for them to be equivalent or near the same is near impossible
16:26:13 [wendyreid]
... if you find this in other outcomes, where there are lots of repeated steps, it might be worth looking all making a composite
16:26:21 [Ben_Tillyer]
+1
16:26:23 [wendyreid]
... fewer but layered goals/outcomes
16:26:26 [Ben_Tillyer]
q+
16:26:31 [wendyreid]
... allows you to mix in the testable things and best practices
16:26:39 [MJ]
present+
16:27:05 [wendyreid]
... breaking things down to the smallest element for testability, things will get too granular, similar to WCAG 2 and separated requirements and best practices
16:27:09 [bruce_bailey]
s[missed that]/group felt we needed more orientation before building out composite outcome
16:27:26 [alastairc]
ack Ben_Tillyer
16:28:06 [wendyreid]
Ben_Tillyer: Just in response to Gregg, I know we can't directly compare mouse input to keyboard input, there are definitely keyboard commands and multiple steps that users will undoubtedly find more complex
16:28:21 [wendyreid]
... there is some comparison we can make, but it might not be directly, not 1:1
16:28:31 [wendyreid]
... I think there is something to look at in terms of complexity or cognitive load
16:29:01 [alastairc]
q+ on putting different methods at different levels, e.g. comparable effort.
16:29:03 [Detlev]
q+
16:29:08 [wendyreid]
... second point, on the combined tree, I feel that if you had combined all of the different keyboard tests into one, you'd get less repetition, but you may spend a long time getting to one specific test
16:29:14 [wendyreid]
... if its at the end of the composite tree
16:29:29 [wendyreid]
... if you're tasked with testing one thing, it may take longer
16:30:01 [wendyreid]
... if you had a test suite for this, and you remember the steps, or might not remember yourself, the test suite would record your answer, it could be partially automated
16:30:17 [wendyreid]
... I don't think a tester would ever see the same test they know and run it again
16:30:33 [alastairc]
ack alastairc
16:30:33 [Zakim]
alastairc, you wanted to comment on putting different methods at different levels, e.g. comparable effort.
16:30:40 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Just going to timebox this as we have other things to do
16:30:44 [Graham]
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16:30:50 [wendyreid]
... the comparable effort item, it could be put at a different level
16:31:15 [wendyreid]
... the fallback could be to assess whether there are more efficient ways to adjusting the UI for keyboard user
16:31:28 [bruce_bailey]
+1 that "comparable effort" should be higher level
16:31:31 [wendyreid]
... in the supplemental requirements, have a stronger requirement about the comparable time/effort
16:31:39 [wendyreid]
... couple of potential ways to deal with this one
16:31:45 [alastairc]
ack Detlev
16:32:00 [wendyreid]
Detlev: My comment is that, I'm unsure whether the tree as presented would be how people test
16:32:28 [wendyreid]
... keyboard is something that's manually tested, the assumption may be that each test runs through the tree, but that may not really be how people do the tests
16:32:47 [wendyreid]
... the question is whether more a theoretical semantic process to assess the process
16:32:53 [wendyreid]
... or for use in the field?
16:32:55 [Ben_Tillyer]
That echoes my understanding Detlev
16:32:59 [Rachael]
q+
16:33:09 [wendyreid]
alastairc: The decision tree is for people to assess what methods to use
16:33:20 [wendyreid]
... but we are still working out how the structure works for different guidelines
16:33:21 [alastairc]
ack Rachael
16:33:30 [wendyreid]
Rachael: Agree with the last part, don't get too stuck
16:33:47 [wendyreid]
... it's not a testing tree, as designed now, as it has evolved, it asks what guidelines apply
16:33:53 [wendyreid]
... not on a per-item basis
16:34:09 [jon_avila]
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16:34:15 [jon_avila]
present+
16:34:17 [alastairc]
It may help to review the examples in the upcoming WCAG 3 publication (in two agenda items time).
16:34:34 [wendyreid]
... but if we got to an application and it had images of text, based on the decision tree, I know this will work because the tools can support the function
16:34:46 [Laura_Carlson]
present+ Laura_Carlson
16:34:53 [wendyreid]
... more asking what criteria you're testing again, not how you're testing on a step-by-step basis
16:35:08 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Move on to a brief presentation from Gregg from a new tool
16:35:11 [alastairc]
zakim, please take up next item
16:35:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Intros and Annoucements -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:35:16 [wendyreid]
... might be inspiration for WCAG3
16:35:18 [alastairc]
zakim, please take up item 3
16:35:18 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Issue 2296 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2296/files -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:35:21 [alastairc]
zakim, please take up item 4
16:35:21 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- EN 301 549 Tool https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/219 -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:36:06 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: EN 301549 is the interational version of Section 508
16:36:12 [wendyreid]
... it directly uses WCAG
16:36:22 [wendyreid]
... for both web and documents and software
16:36:31 [wendyreid]
... there are 287 different provisions in it
16:36:46 [wendyreid]
... it is designed to make it easy to what applies to your particular product
16:36:50 [kevin]
s/international version/European version/
16:37:01 [wendyreid]
... I have a video here showing the product, how it works
16:37:32 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: [showing video]
16:37:59 [alastairc]
audio-desc of the video: Showing a spreadsheet of provisions in a nested structure.
16:38:02 [kevin]
s/European version/international version/
16:38:56 [alastairc]
audio-desc of the video: Showing a table of provisions which can be checked / unchecked.
16:41:22 [Ben_Tillyer]
q+ to ask is the plan to make this a website AND is this approved by the authors of EN... AND was this made by you as an individual or is it affiliated to a company AND (finally) is any data collected from its usage?
16:41:54 [alastairc]
Ben - this is part of the process for creating the next version of the EN (see the link in the agenda above)
16:42:43 [alastairc]
I think it is created by Gregg as a demo.
16:42:51 [ChrisLoiselle]
q+ what specific tab in the workbook are you referencing in the demo?
16:42:54 [dan_bjorge]
q+
16:43:10 [ChrisLoiselle]
what specific tab in the workbook are you referencing in the demo?
16:43:18 [alastairc]
q+ ChrisLoiselle to ask what specific tab in the workbook are you referencing in the demo?
16:43:38 [Glenda]
present+
16:44:15 [Ben_Tillyer]
q-
16:44:57 [ShawnT]
There is a tool already available which we are working on updating it. [ICT accessibility requirements wizard](https://2021-prod.ict-cio.ssc-spc.cloud-nuage.canada.ca/)
16:44:59 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: That gives a quick overview, are there any questions?
16:45:08 [alastairc]
ack dan_bjorge
16:45:28 [wendyreid]
dan_bjorge: This looks like a useful starting point, I would hesitate describing it as not requiring judgement calls
16:45:33 [wendyreid]
... there are still some in there
16:45:48 [wendyreid]
... I would want more guidance if I were someone filling this out, maybe links to more context
16:45:58 [scott]
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16:46:02 [wendyreid]
... what is "communication client"? To add to make it more useful
16:46:04 [scott]
present+
16:46:19 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: What I meant was no judgement based on the maker, but on the user, yes
16:46:39 [Detlev]
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16:46:45 [alastairc]
ack ChrisLoiselle
16:46:45 [Zakim]
ChrisLoiselle, you wanted to ask what specific tab in the workbook are you referencing in the demo?
16:46:48 [wendyreid]
... that's a good suggestion, I tried to include some cues, but linking it to definitions or a help doc, that is a superb idea
16:47:14 [wendyreid]
ChrisLoiselle: I know you showcased many different tabs, is that a specific tab for the different functions?
16:47:27 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: Yes, there's 4 tabs, the captions covered it up
16:47:41 [wendyreid]
... there's introduction, provisions, report
16:47:53 [wendyreid]
... as you check the checkboxes, the provisions page will hide the provisions
16:48:00 [wendyreid]
... the printout just gives you everything in one place
16:48:17 [alastairc]
agenda?
16:48:21 [wendyreid]
... that report doesn't just give you the filtered list and the reasons why its filtered
16:48:23 [alastairc]
zakim, close item 1
16:48:23 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Intros and Annoucements, closed
16:48:24 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:48:24 [Zakim]
3. Issue 2296 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2296/files [from alastairc]
16:48:26 [alastairc]
zakim, close item 14
16:48:26 [Zakim]
I only see 10 items on the agenda
16:48:29 [alastairc]
zakim, close item 4
16:48:29 [Zakim]
agendum 4, EN 301 549 Tool https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/219, closed
16:48:31 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:48:31 [Zakim]
3. Issue 2296 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2296/files [from alastairc]
16:48:32 [wendyreid]
... so someone else may be able to check for errors
16:48:38 [wendyreid]
ChrisLoiselle: Great, thank you
16:48:50 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: I just noticed there is a bug, so I'll put up a clean copy
16:49:09 [wendyreid]
... here is a link to the latest version of EN 301 549 and the tool are both available
16:49:15 [wendyreid]
... in a public location
16:49:41 [wendyreid]
... don't download it quite yet until I fix it
16:49:51 [GreggVan]
https://labs.etsi.org/rep/HF/en301549/-/issues/219
16:49:53 [bruce_bailey]
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16:50:18 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: There's a bunch of things going on in there, there's bug in there, it pops an error on launch
16:50:20 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 2
16:50:20 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Keyboard wrap-up briefing -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:50:23 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 3
16:50:23 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Issue 2296 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2296/files -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:50:40 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Ok next topic, we have gone through the CFC process for WCAG 2.2 errata updates
16:50:55 [wendyreid]
... there was one that hasn't made it through, we just need to go through the process
16:51:04 [wendyreid]
... the change is in the link
16:51:11 [wendyreid]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2296/files
16:51:29 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Changing the index in the introduction, it's linking through to the supplemental guidance
16:51:43 [wendyreid]
... was once a longer link, it's just updating it to go to the right place
16:51:56 [wendyreid]
... supplemental guidance, which goes to all of the guidance
16:52:06 [wendyreid]
... asking does anyone have any issues wit this update?
16:52:09 [alastairc]
Update: We encourage authors to refer to our <a href="https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG2/supplemental/about/">supplemental guidance on improving inclusion</a> for people with disabilities, including cognitive and learning disabilities, low vision, and more.
16:52:16 [Chuck]
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16:52:22 [wendyreid]
s/wit/with/
16:52:41 [wendyreid]
alastairc: If no issues, is this a reasonable update to include in the errata publication?
16:52:51 [wendyreid]
... if so, we'll tag it on to the CfC
16:52:51 [LenB]
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16:52:56 [LenB]
present+
16:53:14 [alastairc]
draft RESOLUTION: accept PR 2296 to update the Background section of WCAG 2.2 and 2.1
16:53:21 [Glenda]
+1
16:53:21 [julierawe]
+1
16:53:22 [wendyreid]
+1
16:53:22 [Ben_Tillyer]
+1
16:53:22 [Chuck]
+1
16:53:22 [Francis_Storr]
+1
16:53:24 [Laura_Carlson]
+1
16:53:25 [mgarrish]
+1
16:53:25 [bruce_bailey]
+1
16:53:27 [GreggVan]
+1
16:53:27 [dan_bjorge]
+1
16:53:28 [kirkwood]
+1
16:53:28 [ShawnT]
+1
16:53:28 [Jennie_Delisi]
+1
16:53:29 [ToddL]
+1
16:53:29 [scott]
+1
16:53:31 [LenB]
+1
16:53:33 [mbgower]
mbgower has joined #ag
16:53:35 [ChrisLoiselle]
+1
16:53:36 [Rachael]
+1
16:53:37 [kevin]
+1
16:53:38 [mbgower]
+1
16:53:39 [Gez]
+1
16:53:43 [ljoakley1]
+1
16:53:49 [alastairc]
RESOLUTION: accept PR 2296 to update the Background section of WCAG 2.2 and 2.1
16:53:54 [alastairc]
agenda?
16:53:54 [GreggVan]
q+
16:53:59 [Makoto]
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16:54:09 [alastairc]
zakim, close item 3
16:54:09 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, alastairc
16:54:14 [giacomo-petri]
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16:54:15 [wendyreid]
GreggVan: One thing from the last topic, the where structure, "where this is true"
16:54:15 [alastairc]
ack GreggVan
16:54:16 [alastairc]
zakim, close item 3
16:54:16 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Issue 2296 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/2296/files, closed
16:54:18 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:54:18 [Zakim]
5. WCAG 3 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/129 [from alastairc]
16:54:50 [wendyreid]
... it might be useful for us to consider structuring WCAG in a similar structure, we have it now, but adopting something similar in our own documentation
16:54:51 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 5
16:54:51 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- WCAG 3 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/129 -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:55:03 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Next item is WCAG3 updates
16:55:07 [wendyreid]
... have a PR up
16:55:13 [alastairc]
Preview: https://deploy-preview-129--wcag3.netlify.app/guidelines/#
16:55:14 [wendyreid]
... a preview is available as well
16:55:30 [wendyreid]
alastairc: We had a few thoughts from Hidde, mostly editorial and incorporated
16:55:40 [wendyreid]
... question about Voice Control, nothing to add for that yet
16:55:48 [wendyreid]
... this is something we are looking at
16:55:53 [wendyreid]
... questions about email
16:55:59 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 6
16:55:59 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- WCAG3 - check acknowledgements -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:56:09 [wendyreid]
... subtopics, the acknowledgements
16:56:13 [wendyreid]
... tried to update them
16:56:16 [GN015]
There might be some further topics to add in the future. Can you please remind where to find the parking lot?
16:56:20 [Rachael]
acknowledgements: https://deploy-preview-129--wcag3.netlify.app/guidelines/#acknowledgements
16:56:27 [wendyreid]
alastairc: If we are missing anyone, please let us know
16:56:34 [ljoakley1]
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16:56:34 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 7
16:56:34 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- WCAG3 - definitions -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:56:49 [wendyreid]
alastairc: Feedback on the definitions, they have been added
16:57:02 [wendyreid]
... or the things referenced from current guidelines, or TBC as we don't have content
16:57:11 [wendyreid]
... taken from WCAG2, or being worked on
16:57:16 [wendyreid]
... marked as exploratory or developing
16:57:22 [wendyreid]
... any other comments or questions?
16:57:23 [Rachael]
q+
16:57:28 [alastairc]
ack Rachael
16:57:44 [wendyreid]
Rachael: Just to say that we pulled the terms from the content moving to developing from exploratory
16:57:56 [wendyreid]
... as we move from exploratory, we add the terms then
16:57:58 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 8
16:57:58 [Zakim]
agendum 8 -- WCAG3 - numbering -- taken up [from alastairc]
16:58:00 [bruce_bailey]
Q+
16:58:28 [wendyreid]
bruce_bailey: Just noticed with acknowledgements, sometimes its "Invited Experts" or "Invited Expert"
16:58:34 [Chuck]
ack Br
16:58:36 [wendyreid]
alastairc: There was a question on numbering and adding numbers in
16:58:42 [wendyreid]
... question is how desirable it is
16:59:04 [Chuck]
q+ to ask for a scribe change
16:59:07 [wendyreid]
... I know previously some people thought it was a mistake, giving numbers to the SCs, if numbers are referenced not names
16:59:21 [wendyreid]
... and at this stage, they will move around and aren't referenceable
16:59:24 [GreggVan]
q+
16:59:31 [wendyreid]
... if there are other thoughts we could open up a discussion on that
16:59:41 [Chuck]
ack Ch
16:59:41 [Zakim]
Chuck, you wanted to ask for a scribe change
16:59:55 [julierawe]
q+
16:59:59 [Glenda]
scribe: Glenda
17:00:17 [alastairc]
ack GreggVan
17:01:06 [Glenda]
Gregg: hard to find things with short names (if they aren’t in alpha order). We might want to go with simple sequential numbers (like an ordered list) at this stage. Example: I’m taking about Keyboard Access #32.
17:01:35 [alastairc]
ack julierawe
17:02:04 [alastairc]
q+ on other mechanisms
17:02:08 [Kimberly]
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17:02:16 [Kimberly]
present+
17:02:55 [Glenda]
Julie: if numbers are concerned for referencing, what about bullets. Some of the sections are so long, it is helpful to have a way to keep track of what level I’m reading. Very hard to follow and the indentention and font sizes aren’t helping enough.
17:03:00 [alastairc]
ack me
17:03:00 [Zakim]
alastairc, you wanted to comment on other mechanisms
17:03:24 [Glenda]
Alastair: we might be able to use accordians
17:03:37 [alastairc]
zakim, take up item 9
17:03:37 [Zakim]
agendum 9 -- WCAG3 - scope (to web) -- taken up [from alastairc]
17:04:01 [julierawe]
q+
17:04:09 [tiffanyburtin]
+1 Julie to additional methods to help visually chunk the information to help it be a bit more readable
17:04:47 [alastairc]
ack julierawe
17:04:48 [Glenda]
Alastair: How does this apply to native mobile apps and non-web context. Current charter restricts us to web tech. So we may get more flexibility in our next charter, we will try. Then it is a matter of how do we enable the structure for other types of tech.
17:05:18 [Glenda]
Julie: inconsistency, sometimes we say WCAG 3. Sometimes we say WCAG 3.0. We need to be consistent.
17:06:21 [Glenda]
Alastair: are we ready for a resolution Rachael?
17:07:06 [julierawe]
q+
17:07:10 [Glenda]
Rachael: We have some editorial changes. And we have a few pull requests. Are we comfortable to make this editorial changes and give you 2 days to review and move to CFC at end of this week?
17:07:16 [ChrisLoiselle]
q+
17:07:23 [alastairc]
draft RESOLUTION: Approval for merging the changes into the Editors draft in preparation for CFC for publication
17:07:27 [alastairc]
ack julierawe
17:07:30 [Glenda]
Julie: Are you including formating the guidelines section so it is easier to navigate?
17:07:32 [alastairc]
ack ChrisLoiselle
17:07:38 [Glenda]
Rachael: Yes
17:07:49 [Rachael]
q+
17:08:02 [alastairc]
ack Rachael
17:08:23 [Glenda]
Chris: My email about scope beyond web, was just clarification.
17:08:41 [alastairc]
draft RESOLUTION: Approval for merging the changes into the Editors draft in preparation for CFC for publication
17:08:49 [Detlev]
+1
17:08:52 [ShawnT]
+1
17:08:53 [ChrisLoiselle]
+1
17:08:54 [Chuck]
+1
17:08:54 [Laura_Carlson]
+1
17:08:55 [Jennie_Delisi]
+1
17:08:56 [Rachael]
+1
17:08:57 [Makoto]
+1
17:08:59 [Ben_Tillyer]
0 been away for a few weeks, haven't reviewed
17:09:02 [LenB]
+1
17:09:03 [mgarrish]
+1
17:09:05 [Francis_Storr]
+1
17:09:05 [Gez]
+1
17:09:08 [Glenda]
+1
17:09:10 [MJ]
+1
17:09:14 [tiffanyburtin]
+1
17:09:23 [bruce_bailey]
bruce_bailey has joined #ag
17:09:25 [GreggVan]
+1
17:09:27 [bruce_bailey]
+1
17:09:28 [ToddL]
_1
17:09:31 [ToddL]
+1
17:09:33 [filippo-zorzi]
+1
17:09:34 [kirkwood]
+1
17:09:46 [julierawe]
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17:09:54 [julierawe]
present+
17:09:56 [julierawe]
+1
17:10:08 [alastairc]
RESOLUTION: Approval for merging the changes into the Editors draft in preparation for CFC for publication
17:10:17 [alastairc]
agenda?
17:10:54 [Chuck]
Views: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pN6zc0YjxY2TmhmrSii0Y5ghzjdNOqMV5F4a_Dfqsyo/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.7bct10877dbh
17:11:05 [Chuck]
Voice Control: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IpVHc8-PRn7z-wqZ32G4zG4CjFdZT0HAJ787WfUxNP0/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.nykct8nbnejl
17:11:14 [Chuck]
Text Contrast: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BIcyTcyGz-vb6FCAzzhXcXFukktgjUU6-dM0rYsuYMM/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti
17:11:25 [bruce_bailey]
q+ not coming back correct?
17:12:16 [ShawnT]
Text to speech: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13NASXgLB6yVtZJqiN-HsD1xOIffOXbe0/edit?usp=share_link&ouid=114934085576672059156
17:12:27 [Glenda]
Alastair: we will not be coming back afterwards
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18:01:11 [Laura_Carlson]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/19-ag-minutes.html Laura_Carlson
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