15:00:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
15:00:57 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/18-lws-irc
15:01:15 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
15:01:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:01:17 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
15:01:23 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
15:02:20 <hadrian> hadrian has joined #lws
15:02:49 <BenDM> BenDM has joined #lws
15:03:08 <hadrian> present+
15:03:09 <timbl> timbl has joined #lws
15:03:10 <eBremer> present+
15:03:12 <BenDM> present+
15:03:19 <csarven> present+
15:03:23 <jacoscaz> present+
15:03:25 <dmitriz> present+
15:03:30 <acoburn> present+
15:03:34 <pchampin> present+
15:03:35 <timbl> present+
15:05:02 <acoburn> scribenick: BenDM
15:05:14 <pchampin> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20241111T100000/#agenda
15:05:16 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:05:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Introductions and announcements
15:05:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Approving previous minutes
15:05:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending action items
15:05:16 <agendabot> agenda+ Use cases status
15:05:22 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #lws
15:05:23 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
15:05:36 <acoburn> chair: acoburn
15:05:41 <acoburn> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:05:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/18-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:05:53 <acoburn> agenda?
15:06:03 <BenDM> acoburn: agenda first point: introductions
15:06:04 <pchampin> zakim, open item 1
15:06:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions and announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:22 <BenDM> acoburn: anyone new that wants to introduce themselves?
15:06:28 <pchampin> zakim, close item 1
15:06:28 <Zakim> agendum 1, Introductions and announcements, closed
15:06:29 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:06:29 <Zakim> 2. Approving previous minutes [from agendabot]
15:06:32 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
15:06:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approving previous minutes -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:06:39 <BenDM> acoburn: next item: approving previous minutes
15:06:44 <ryey> present+
15:06:59 <BenDM> acoburn: we decided to approve minutes after a week if no objections, so: any objections?
15:07:11 <pchampin> FTR https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-lws-minutes.html
15:07:18 <BenDM> acoburn: if no objections, we can move to the next item
15:07:24 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
15:07:24 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, pchampin
15:07:29 <pchampin> zakim, close item 2
15:07:29 <Zakim> agendum 2, Approving previous minutes, closed
15:07:30 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:30 <Zakim> 3. Pending action items [from agendabot]
15:07:31 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
15:07:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Pending action items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:45 <BenDM> acorn: 3rd item: pending action items
15:08:01 <BenDM> acoburn: 3rd item: pending action items
15:08:24 <BenDM> acoburn: now we have a use case template in place
15:08:32 <TallTed> present+
15:08:44 <BenDM> acoburn: we wanted to reach out to a couple of (TPAC) people to review the template
15:08:53 <BenDM> acoburn: that's progressing
15:08:59 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
15:09:13 <ericP> present+
15:09:15 <BenDM> acoburn: one of the issues is that there are a lot of places where the use cases are
15:09:28 <acoburn> -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sFZ0BozoLA3U7iROtu10tR7S05_OEOprS8Um9NZqZYw/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.dzhfksak68xg TPAC use cases
15:09:30 <BenDM> acoburn: we want to move them all to a single location
15:09:47 <BenDM> acoburn: TPAC use cases are at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sFZ0BozoLA3U7iROtu10tR7S05_OEOprS8Um9NZqZYw/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.dzhfksak68xg
15:10:09 <acoburn> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues Use cases submissions (so far)
15:10:31 <BenDM> acoburn: the use case submissions are put in https://github.com/w3c/lws-ucs/issues
15:10:52 <BenDM> acoburn: there might be other locations, people talked about them, those are all fair gain
15:11:06 <acoburn> s/gain/game
15:11:09 <BenDM> timbl: do we have a homepage?
15:11:29 <BenDM> acoburn: I could suggest that we go into the next agenda item and really talk about the use cases
15:11:48 <BenDM> timbl: if it's eventually on the Web it should be fine, eg a homepage where we keep the use cases
15:12:08 <BenDM> acoburn: the goal of the end state is that all of the use cases are in a single document or in a set of documents
15:12:15 <BenDM> acoburn: easy to find, catalogued
15:12:31 <BenDM> acoburn: we'll use that list to organize and prioritize the working group
15:12:47 <pchampin> q+
15:12:53 <BenDM> timbl:anyone coming into this working group should be able to find out what we're working on
15:13:03 <BenDM> timbl: as long as it's eventually on the Web
15:13:04 <acoburn> ask pchampin
15:13:07 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/lws/
15:13:17 <BenDM> pchampin: to respond to that: the working group home page is the W3C generated home page
15:13:43 <BenDM> pchampin: there's a menu with list of publications (currently empty), where we'll add the publication once it's ready
15:14:10 <BenDM> pchamping: also the repo is added, but the name probably isn't really clear (lws-ucs)
15:14:25 <BenDM> pchampin: also the repo is added, but the name probably isn't really clear (lws-ucs)
15:14:31 <pchampin> action pchampin to add links to the protocol and use-case repos in the summary on the WG's homepage
15:14:40 <BenDM> pchampin: action for me is the move the summary to the WG's homepage
15:14:54 <BenDM> acoburn: next topic: status of use cases
15:15:00 <pchampin> zakim, open next iteù
15:15:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'open next iteù', pchampin
15:15:01 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
15:15:01 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, pchampin
15:15:02 <BenDM> acoburn: hadrian, could you give a status?
15:15:08 <pchampin> s|zakim, open next iteù|
15:15:20 <pchampin> q?
15:15:22 <BenDM> hadrian: there was confusion with use cases vs user stories
15:15:26 <pchampin> ack pchampin
15:15:32 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
15:15:32 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Use cases status -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:15:33 <BenDM> hadrian: there is a new use case by csarven
15:15:46 <BenDM> hadrian: last week I was sick, this week I want to clean up a bit more
15:16:04 <BenDM> acoburn: any questions about where things stand on the use cases or the process to submit use cases?
15:16:30 <BenDM> acoburn: (no questions) OK, so as a reminder: we do really want use cases to come in
15:17:03 <BenDM> acoburn: anyone having use cases via your work or organizations: those things would give us a much stronger document and foundation to create the requirements
15:17:12 <BenDM> acoburn: and will eventually create a better protocol
15:17:22 <BenDM> acoburn: maybe we should discuss a timeframe for the use cases
15:17:28 <BenDM> +1
15:17:45 <jeswr> jeswr has joined #lws
15:17:58 <BenDM> acoburn: we want to have a comprehensive list of use cases. That will take time, but we also want to get started with other things
15:18:14 <BenDM> acoburn: a suggestion for a possible timeframe for use cases: by the end of the year?
15:18:15 <pchampin> q+
15:18:18 <jeswr> +present
15:18:54 <BenDM> pchampin: for this kind of deadline: would you not accept any more new use cases in the new year, or would you still be open to accept new ones?
15:18:55 <pchampin> ack pchampin
15:19:18 <BenDM> acoburn: I'd suggest: we continue to support use cases, but starting January 1, we'll start prioritizing use cases and work with them
15:19:40 <BenDM> acoburn: new use cases might have a higher bar to be prioritized, but we'd still be accepting them
15:19:48 <BenDM> +q
15:19:54 <csarven> q+
15:19:55 <pchampin> scribe+
15:20:46 <pchampin> BenDM: by the chosen deadline, do we aim to have a list of issues, or already a document that we can share?
15:21:38 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
15:21:42 <pchampin> ... If people see some kind of finished document, this can give them ideas about more use-cases to add.
15:21:49 <pchampin> scribe-
15:22:10 <BenDM> hadrian: I don't think we need a grace period, we don't start from scratch
15:22:23 <BenDM> hadrian: I don't think there'll come many surprises
15:22:40 <BenDM> hadrian: I think having a document is good way to have people start thinking
15:23:01 <pchampin> q+
15:23:09 <BenDM> hadrian: I think we can have a first version of the document by the end of the year, and we can enrich
15:23:13 <pchampin> ack BenDM
15:23:13 <BenDM> q-
15:23:25 <pchampin> ack csarven
15:23:59 <BenDM> csarven: I think we should have sufficient announcements to enter use cases, also outside the working group
15:24:06 <hadrian> q+
15:24:12 <BenDM> csarven: there's also the holidays, but I'm not objecting the the timeframe
15:24:22 <CxRes3> CxRes3 has joined #lws
15:24:33 <BenDM> csarven: the question is whether the use cases are being proposed as arbitrary use cases, to be within the scope of the group
15:24:46 <BenDM> csarven: or whether those use case will be also implemented by the proposers
15:25:05 <BenDM> csarven: so whether it's more hypothetical, or whether the proposers will also provide implementations
15:25:45 <BenDM> csarven: I'm less concerned about the specific, but more about taking a good sample, sufficiently backed
15:25:49 <ericP> I believe the request is to have a way for WG members and maybe the public at large to be able to view the proposed use cases before the (loose) deadline
15:25:56 <acoburn> q?
15:26:05 <acoburn> ack pchampin
15:26:14 <ericP> That list *could* be curated (e.g. de-duplicated, normalized)
15:26:32 <BenDM> pchampin: about the publication of the use case document as a Note: we can release early, release often
15:27:10 <BenDM> pchampin: it's common practice to set up an initial empty document, and have new releases every time something is pushed
15:27:28 <acoburn> q?
15:27:39 <acoburn> ack hadrian
15:27:48 <BenDM> pchampin: I wouldn't be afraid to publish often, perhaps unfinished, I expect people to prefer that, compared to (only) publishing something polished
15:28:10 <BenDM> hadrian: I agree with that process, I'll reach out to you and Aaron for the actual process tooling
15:28:33 <BenDM> hadrian: I agree with csarven's comment that we should announce the request for use cases broadly
15:28:43 <acoburn> q+
15:28:49 <hadrian> q-
15:28:54 <BenDM> hadrian: also, we should start gathering the requirements starting from January, that's the most important part
15:29:09 <BenDM> acoburn: next step: start broadcasting more aggressively the request for use cases
15:29:32 <BenDM> acoburn: for example: message to the public mailing list, if someone wants to do that, there welcome to, otherwise I'll do that
15:29:45 <BenDM> acoburn: (no takers) I'll do that
15:30:00 <BenDM> acoburn: hadrian, if you could send a message to the ??? group, that would be great
15:30:04 <BenDM> hadrian: will do
15:30:11 <BenDM> acoburn: are there other channels?
15:30:11 <BenDM> q+
15:30:16 <hadrian> q+
15:30:19 <pchampin> scribe+
15:30:41 <BenDM> jacoscaz: there's communication happening on gitter
15:30:48 <BenDM> acoburn: could you reach out on the folks on gitter?
15:30:56 <BenDM> jacoscaz: yeah, I'll do that
15:30:57 <acoburn> ACTION: acoburn to reach out on LWS mailing list
15:31:05 <gb> I created -> issue #1 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/1
15:31:05 <gb> but I could not add the "action" label.
15:31:05 <gb> That probably means I don't have push permission on w3c/lws-protocol.
15:31:44 <hadrian> q?
15:31:52 <acoburn> ack acoburn
15:31:58 <acoburn> ack BenDM
15:32:17 <acoburn> scribe++
15:32:19 <jacoscaz> ACTION: jacoscaz to reach out on Solid-related chat rooms on Gitter
15:32:19 <gb> I created -> issue #2 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/2
15:32:19 <gb> but I could not add the "action" label.
15:32:19 <gb> That probably means I don't have push permission on w3c/lws-protocol.
15:32:35 <acoburn> BenDM: are there limitations on how broadly we should reach out?
15:32:36 <pchampin> BenDM: is there a limitation on where to reach about the use-cases? I could send it to people in Flanders.
15:32:59 <acoburn> scribe--
15:33:10 <pchampin> acoburn: I don't think so, broadly speaking.
15:33:14 <acoburn> q?
15:33:18 <acoburn> ack hadrian
15:33:19 <pchampin> scribe-
15:34:04 <pchampin> q+
15:34:05 <BenDM> hadrian: with respect to reaching out, on the side of reaching broader: I was invited to the CCG in January, the W3C groups, and not only the ones we know that are interested in our work
15:34:17 <BenDM> hadrian: so I will reach out to the credentials group
15:34:24 <acoburn> ack pchampin
15:34:33 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/linked-web-storage-wg-charter.html#coordination
15:34:39 <acoburn> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:34:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/18-lws-minutes.html acoburn
15:34:47 <BenDM> hadrian: (before the end of the year)
15:35:07 <BenDM> pchampin: we have a (long) list of relevant W3C groups to coordinate with
15:35:11 <acoburn> q?
15:35:33 <BenDM> acoburn: any other questions or topics related to the use cases document?
15:35:49 <BenDM> acoburn: any other questions or topics, not related to the use cases?
15:36:08 <BenDM> acoburn: then, we are done a bit early, any objections to ending early?
15:36:21 <BenDM> acoburn: thanks all!
15:36:31 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:36:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/18-lws-minutes.html pchampin
15:40:04 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
15:40:04 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/18-lws-actions.rdf :
15:40:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: acoburn to reach out on LWS mailing list [1]
15:40:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/18-lws-irc#T15-30-57
15:40:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jacoscaz to reach out on Solid-related chat rooms on Gitter [2]
15:40:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/11/18-lws-irc#T15-32-19
<pchampin> s|acorn: 3rd item: pending action items|
<pchampin> s|ask pchampin|
<pchampin> s|pchamping: also the repo is added, but the name probably isn't really clear (lws-ucs)|
<pchampin> s|agendum 4 -- Use cases status -- taken up [from agendabot]|
<pchampin> i|acoburn: hadrian, could you give a status?|topic: Use cases status
<pchampin> s|+present|present+
<pchampin> s|I created -> issue #1 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/1|
<pchampin> s|I created -> issue #2 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/2|
<pchampin> s|but I could not add the "action" label.||g
<pchampin> s|That probably means I don't have push permission on w3c/lws-protocol.||g
<pchampin> s|scribe++|
<pchampin> s|BenDM: are there limitations on how broadly we should reach out?|