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15:04:05 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
15:10:47 <kaz> chair: Ege
15:11:04 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Christiano_Aguzzi
15:11:12 <kaz> s/Christiano/Cristiano/
15:11:16 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:11:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:12:09 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#November_13-14%2C_2024
15:12:30 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Kunihiko_Toumura
15:12:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:12:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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15:13:23 <kaz> regrets+ Sebastian
15:14:00 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:15:41 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
15:16:13 <cris> topic: previous minutes
15:16:36 <cris> ege: they look fine
15:17:00 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:17:04 <cris> ege: any comments?
15:17:16 <cris> ege: minutes approved
15:17:28 <cris> topic: Initial connection
15:17:37 <kaz> i|they look|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html Nov-6|
15:17:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:18:00 <EgeKorkan> https://hackmd.io/mV9KjUC9QpOizp9kaDjqZw
15:18:04 <cris> ege: I created this hackmd
15:18:07 <kaz> i|they look|scribenick: cris|
15:18:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:18:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:18:16 <cris> ... to play with the proposals
15:18:57 <cris> ... I created two td examples
15:19:08 <cris> ... first with Luca's idea
15:19:15 <cris> ... seperating connections from form defaults
15:19:28 <cris> ... the other one is mine plus some changes
15:19:49 <cris> ... asked feedback in Siemens
15:19:54 <cris> ... they liked the direction
15:20:03 <cris> ... but they are not sure about optimizing too much
15:20:44 <cris> ... my proposal is to remove commonDefinitions container
15:20:51 <cris> ... it is quite redundant
15:21:29 <kaz> i|hackmd.io|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/2040 PR 2040 - Initial/Common Connection Container Proposal|
15:21:44 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
15:21:58 <cris> ... do we want to merge everything in one
15:22:24 <cris> luca: the idea is that the security is a special case of connection configuration
15:22:51 <cris> ... this means that if we have a container dedicated to configure a connection then security belong to that place
15:24:34 <cris> ... low level details should be integrated in the container
15:24:48 <cris> ege: yes low level details should be described in a protocol binding
15:26:12 <cris> luca: one second level of common definition can be used to describe commonalities in the forms
15:26:36 <cris> ... it is mainly useful to keep everything more tidy
15:26:52 <cris> ... the idea of the proposal is to keep everything as compat as possible.
15:27:13 <cris> ege: it would be fine
15:28:36 <kaz> q+
15:28:46 <cris> ... how do we define the default connection ?
15:29:04 <luca_barbato> q+
15:29:32 <cris> .... in this proposal I am not sure what to peak as default mechanism
15:31:00 <cris> kaz: for today's discussion we can focus on this example. But what is the basic assumption ? From the view point of IoT and Smart cities we should focus not only at the network level but also to application and device level security
15:31:10 <cris> ege: do you mean something like access control?
15:31:16 <cris> kaz: yeah that part too.
15:31:17 <kaz> q-
15:31:33 <cris> luca: about defaults in any case we have defaults
15:31:49 <cris> ... if connection defintions is empty we have a deafault
15:31:50 <mjk> q?
15:32:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:32:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:32:23 <cris> ... in practice we need both defaultForm and defaultConnection
15:32:36 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
15:32:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:32:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:34:45 <cris> q+
15:34:48 <EgeKorkan> ack l
15:35:04 <cris> luca explaining how to deal with defaults
15:36:04 <kaz> s/assumption ?/assumption?/
15:36:14 <cris> cris: what is the error conditions ?
15:36:21 <cris> s/is/are/
15:36:32 <cris> luca: current TD have already stack defaults
15:37:09 <kaz> s/Smart cities/smart cities, etc., in general,/
15:37:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:37:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:37:19 <cris> ... it should be that complicated to implement this mechanism
15:37:35 <cris> ... about the mistakes, current proposal is just about overrides
15:37:48 <cris> ... it does not tackle what is a valid TD
15:38:06 <cris> ... ofc we could deal with errors once all the defaults are applied.
15:38:57 <cris> ege: there is something that overlaps between connection and form ?
15:41:43 <cris> ... I'm interested on how to differentiate elements that goes in connection or form definitions
15:43:27 <cris> ... with schema definitions is still as before
15:43:54 <cris> ... about the root container
15:44:02 <cris> ... do we want to have it or not?
15:44:06 <cris> q+
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15:45:22 <cris> cris: is this finite set or dynamic?
15:45:29 <luca_barbato> q+
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15:45:49 <kaz> s/for today's discussion/This is a meta comment about how we should handle "Security for WoT". For today's discussion,/
15:45:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:45:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:46:09 <cris> ege: it is finite
15:46:10 <kaz> ack c
15:46:13 <kaz> ack l
15:46:28 <cris> cris: ok, plus it looks like another affordance, at least a little bit
15:46:43 <cris> ... so I'm ok to remove it
15:47:02 <cris> luca: I don't have a strong preference, but additional level is more future proof
15:47:58 <cris> ... plus having that would allow to point to one single property and store configurations there
15:48:14 <cris> ege: ok any other options?
15:48:49 <cris> ... ok
15:49:19 <cris> ege: in this proposal we are making possible to have "inline" securities
15:49:23 <luca_barbato> q+
15:49:37 <cris> ... which solves the problem to have to first declare security and then use it.
15:50:04 <cris> ... most of security settings should be moved to protocol binding vocabulary
15:50:48 <cris> s/securities/security schemes/
15:51:10 <cris> luca: we can support inline by saying that a property could have a name or an object
15:52:05 <cris> ... I want to have this mechanism as something consistent everywhere
15:56:12 <cris> q+
15:56:17 <EgeKorkan> ack l
15:57:06 <cris> cris: I'm not seeing big problems, just look after weird cycles that might be created
15:57:51 <cris> ege: schemas can be defined inside formDefintions
15:58:11 <cris> ... I'll make a simple TD
15:58:20 <cris> ... as well complex TDs
15:58:43 <cris> s/as well/as well as/
16:01:38 <cris> [adjourned]
16:01:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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