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16:58:21 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'set world-visible', AutomatedTester.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
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16:59:26 <AutomatedTester> Meeting: Browser Testing and Tools - November 2024
16:59:35 <AutomatedTester> Chair: David Burns
16:59:42 <AutomatedTester> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2024-11-BiDi
17:00:24 <AutomatedTester> Scribe: David Burns
17:00:32 <AutomatedTester> ScribeNick: AutomatedTester
17:00:45 <AutomatedTester> RRSAgent, create minutes
17:00:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-webdriver-minutes.html AutomatedTester
17:00:53 <AutomatedTester> present+
17:00:54 <sadym> present+
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17:01:38 <jgraham> RRSAgent, pointer
17:01:38 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-webdriver-irc#T17-01-38
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17:01:52 <orkon> present+
17:01:55 <jdescottes> present+
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17:02:04 <whimboo> present+
17:02:10 <jgraham> present+
17:02:12 <sasha> present+
17:03:15 <tidoust> present+
17:07:34 <AutomatedTester> topic: Expose initiatorType and destination on network.Reques
17:07:43 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/809
17:08:02 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: when we first did the networkj request events
17:08:40 <AutomatedTester> ... we had network.initiator which ahd a type field to mirror what was in cdp. We never really figured that out and it's not being used
17:08:50 <whimboo> whimboo has joined #webdriver
17:09:13 <AutomatedTester> ... but now fetch has the same use cases for the initatorType and this PR has all of this
17:09:29 <AutomatedTester> ... and there is a plan that we can deprecate the previous way of doing this
17:10:01 <AutomatedTester> ... are there any remaining concerns on this proposal?
17:10:10 <whimboo> q+
17:10:15 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:10:48 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: I wanted to mention this is a property that would fully unblock cypress sooner
17:11:42 <AutomatedTester> ... Cypress is planning a major release next year and they want to show that they have bidi support
17:12:08 <AutomatedTester> topic: Restore behavior of wait for navigation to complete when a user prompt is opened
17:12:19 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1857
17:13:04 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: we have had someone spot a regresdsion when we have an alert open with navigation to complete
17:13:30 <AutomatedTester> ... we aren't waiting for the alert, we return immediately saying timeout
17:14:13 <AutomatedTester> ... my question is "Do we want to return early if there is an alert?" I think it would be better if we were to return immediately
17:14:20 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:15:21 <AutomatedTester> Topic: Should a navigation clean-up the browsing context input state map?
17:15:31 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1859
17:16:12 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: It looks. like there is a broken understanding between browsing context and navigator
17:17:01 <AutomatedTester> ... this is likely an issue from the move between browsing context and navigator. Do we need to fix everything or can we go fix the actions first by themselves
17:18:08 <orkon> q+
17:18:22 <AutomatedTester> ... when speaking to orkon there are hundreds of cases that may need to be updated in the classic spec. do we want to change one or everything?
17:18:25 <AutomatedTester> ack next
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17:18:48 <whimboo> s/this is likely an issue from the move between browsing context and navigator/this is likely an issue from the move between browsing context and navigable
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17:19:07 <AutomatedTester> orkon: I think that this is the same problem when we were moving to navigable before with the html spec
17:19:09 <jgraham> q+
17:19:55 <jimevans> present+
17:19:55 <AutomatedTester> ... i think it probably makes sense to at least have a note with browsing context meaning navigable and replace all of them to prevent any confusion between commands
17:19:59 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:20:30 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I think every use of browsing context means navigable.
17:20:58 <whimboo> q+
17:21:28 <AutomatedTester> ... <describes if it survives traversible>
17:21:46 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:22:35 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: given that it should survive navigation then we can close this issue so we don't want to fix this as one item
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17:23:03 <orkon> q+
17:23:05 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: the way that orkon did this for bidi was a good way to do it for the classic. It will be a rather large PR
17:23:09 <simons> present+
17:23:09 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:24:26 <AutomatedTester> orkon: unrelated, I noticed that bikeshed allows combining files into a spec. I wonder if we can use this to make it simpler to move things across as there are similarities in the spec.
17:24:27 <AutomatedTester> q?
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17:25:19 <AutomatedTester> topic: Include stacktrace into log messages
17:25:30 <AutomatedTester> github-bot: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/807
17:25:30 <github-bot> AutomatedTester, Sorry, I don't understand that command.  Try 'help'.
17:25:45 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/807
17:25:47 <orkon> q+
17:25:56 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:26:18 <AutomatedTester> orkon: this is a PR/issue about stacktrace not being part of the log messages
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17:27:02 <AutomatedTester> ... this was originally excluded but they have come up with a use case to ignore log messages if it comes from a "third party script".
17:27:03 <whimboo> q+
17:27:18 <AutomatedTester> ... I am now wondering if we should include stacktraces to all console logs?
17:27:20 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:27:44 <jgraham> q+
17:27:59 <sadym> q+
17:28:21 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: I think it would be fine to add it. I think it would add it to console logging? I wonder if we want to all people to opt into this extra info as it could add a lot of info
17:28:25 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:28:56 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I was going to say something similar. I don't know if it is expensive to compute a stacktrace as it could be expensive
17:29:18 <AutomatedTester> ... this could lead into the subscription discussion later
17:30:05 <AutomatedTester> ... I think it would be good to have a way of config if you don't want debug messages you can exclude them and do we want to opt into stacktraces. It merits a discussion
17:30:09 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:30:48 <AutomatedTester> sadym: I didn't mean that we add configuration to the subscription. I don't want to send them by default, just if the user subscribes it
17:31:09 <jdescottes> q+
17:31:10 <AutomatedTester> ... and users can limit the info being passed back with preload script
17:31:14 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:32:05 <jgraham> q+
17:32:07 <AutomatedTester> jdescottes: I think that stacktraces are there for most things, have a way to add it already and support adding it in this scenario
17:32:09 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:32:37 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: Let's add it by default and if we need filtering we can add that at a later stage
17:32:38 <whimboo> q+
17:32:41 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:32:57 <orkon> q+
17:33:11 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: could someone submit a PR that updates and adds stacktrace
17:33:19 <AutomatedTester> ... or I can try do it next week
17:33:35 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:33:54 <AutomatedTester> orkon: this is in the console spec already
17:34:15 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: we don't have this in firefox yet so I think we may need the spec changes
17:34:16 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:34:17 <whimboo> see also https://github.com/whatwg/console/issues/203
17:34:32 <AutomatedTester> whimboo: I have put a link to the issue above
17:34:38 <AutomatedTester> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:34:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-webdriver-minutes.html AutomatedTester
17:34:45 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:35:01 <AutomatedTester> sadym: we already send stacktrace for logEntry
17:35:19 <AutomatedTester> topic: Allow applying preload scripts to opened contexts
17:35:30 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/803
17:35:57 <AutomatedTester> orkon: this is one of the. topics that was brought up by the playwright folks
17:36:02 <jgraham> q+
17:36:22 <AutomatedTester> ... this is the PR that prepared to implements inheritance for preload scripts
17:36:41 <sadym> q+
17:36:45 <AutomatedTester> ... I wonder if there are concerns with this approach and would this have an issue with the events being sent out?
17:36:49 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:37:00 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I think we shouild do this
17:37:39 <AutomatedTester> ... we should be looking to add global configuration or top level traversibles be documented
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17:38:15 <AutomatedTester> ... I agree we should be doing this but I think we need to be aware of all the different ways that we should bve doing this
17:38:25 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:38:28 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:39:07 <AutomatedTester> sadym: this looks like a new mechanism. I wonder if this playwright appraoch could not be handled with using preload script globally
17:39:18 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I think it could but that might be harder
17:40:03 <AutomatedTester> ... people would want it a per context and I think we want it inheritable. They are both required
17:40:06 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:40:27 <AutomatedTester> topic: Subscription IDs for events
17:40:41 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/810
17:41:03 <AutomatedTester> orkon: this is a continuation of the previous topic
17:41:31 <AutomatedTester> ... I have been reworking this to make sure that we can inherit events
17:41:38 <jgraham> q+
17:41:57 <AutomatedTester> ... I have tried to get all the use cases but I am not sure that I ahve got them all
17:42:20 <AutomatedTester> ... should we add subscription IDs or should we use the current way of doing it without IDs
17:42:24 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:42:44 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I like the subscription id approach is good
17:43:30 <AutomatedTester> ... jdescottes brought this up for when working on tests so we can unscribe from events that are not related to what we are wroking on. e.g. harness events vs user events
17:44:20 <AutomatedTester> ... <describes a use case where we subscribe events from a list and then diff them>
17:44:46 <AutomatedTester> ... it might be easier to have it just as a list of events we want to handle
17:45:23 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:45:37 <AutomatedTester> topic: Support finding iframe elements by browsing context id
17:45:46 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/794
17:46:27 <AutomatedTester> orkon: proposal of a way to find the container of the navigable by browsing context id
17:46:44 <AutomatedTester> ... there is a request from playwright and puppeteer
17:47:18 <AutomatedTester> ... there are multple ways that we can do this. I have written a PR of this is
17:47:37 <AutomatedTester> ... there is another way that whimboo suggested
17:47:48 <simons> q+
17:47:54 <AutomatedTester> ... I like this way as it like how we locate DOM nodes
17:47:59 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:47:59 <jgraham> q+
17:48:00 <sadym> q+
17:48:26 <AutomatedTester> simons: I think that it should be a locator as that is how classic/selenium does this
17:48:50 <AutomatedTester> there is one wrinkle that people like to find iframes by id or name
17:48:55 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:50:06 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: This is about finding iframes in a navigable which is different to classic. Using a locator feels weird but I can see the appeal
17:50:16 <AutomatedTester> ... I think that I would prefer a different command
17:50:29 <sadym> q-
17:50:41 <orkon> q+
17:50:41 <AutomatedTester> ... perhaps actually this is going to be fine and won't make much difference. I am happy the PR mostly as it is
17:50:49 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:51:52 <AutomatedTester> orkon: regarding this PR. At the moment we discard the locator... I wonder if there is <missed question> and should we throw an error when using the locator or should we just ignore them
17:52:03 <AutomatedTester> q?
17:52:05 <sadym> q+
17:52:36 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: is the second question more of a CDDL question?
17:53:34 <AutomatedTester> orkon: not really... this there are other attributes
17:54:00 <AutomatedTester> ... and they are optional fields
17:54:15 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I think this is pushing me to this a new command
17:54:35 <orkon> q+
17:54:45 <orkon> q-
17:54:47 <AutomatedTester> ... there is something to be said about having a command that doesn't take invalid commands
17:54:49 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:55:23 <AutomatedTester> sadym: if we send command with locate nodes and then get a browsing context
17:55:29 <AutomatedTester> orkon: yes...
17:55:59 <AutomatedTester> sadym: this feels wrong. We are going to need to send other fields here
17:56:18 <orkon> q+
17:57:13 <AutomatedTester> orkon: we could have the search from the parent context to return the child
17:57:32 <AutomatedTester> sadym: this would change the way that the command works and feels weird
17:57:59 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: if we need to call getTree to be able to use the command that complicates this
17:58:47 <jgraham> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:58:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
17:58:54 <AutomatedTester> ack next
17:59:23 <AutomatedTester> topic: WPT RFC-214 Add testdriver features
17:59:35 <AutomatedTester> github: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/rfcs/pull/214
18:00:41 <AutomatedTester> sadym: please can everyone have a look at this. It's not directly releated to this group but could gsnedders and jgraham and others please review
18:03:39 <AutomatedTester> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:03:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/13-webdriver-minutes.html AutomatedTester
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