19:07:25 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 19:07:29 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/12-aria-apg-irc 19:07:29 RRSAgent, make logs Public 19:07:30 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 19:07:44 present+ jugglinmike 19:07:48 scribe+ jugglinmike 19:07:51 present+ howard-e 19:07:59 present+ Siri 19:08:04 present+ dmontalvo 19:08:14 present+ jon 19:08:40 Matt_King has joined #aria-apg 19:08:45 present+ Matt_King 19:08:50 present+ 19:08:59 Topic: Setup and Review Agenda 19:09:02 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/November-12,-2024-Agenda 19:09:17 Matt_King: Any requests for change to agenda? 19:09:25 Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with the agenda as planned 19:09:30 Matt_King: Next meeting: November 19 19:09:35 Matt_King: No meeting November 26 19:09:45 Matt_King: We'll be back on December 3 19:09:51 Topic: Publication planning 19:09:59 Matt_King: Our target date is Thursday, December 12 19:10:11 Matt_King: We'll have two meetings in December to prepare for that 19:10:46 dmontalvo: I let Shawn know about the off-cycle publication date--there should be no issues about that 19:11:00 jongund has joined #aria-apg 19:11:02 Matt_King: We have one thing complete and three things in process 19:11:39 Matt_King: We'll probably do our final in-meeting review of the high-contrast work on December 3 19:12:00 Matt_King: I hope to get my editorial changes complete by next week, and then we can assign reviewers during that meeting 19:12:09 jongund: I think I'm done with my work for now 19:12:39 Matt_King: Okay. I'll continue with my minor editorial clean-up so that we're ready to assign reviewers next week 19:12:54 jongund: I might update some examples like the carousel example to actually use this 19:13:00 Matt_King: That would be a separate pull request, though 19:13:02 jongund: Agreed 19:13:27 jongund: This opened up a lot of questions for me. Our coverage report talks about contrast--I think that should be about forced colors to be more clear 19:13:47 lola has joined #aria-apg 19:13:50 Matt_King: I think that's okay as a follow-on, as well. It doesn't have to be done at the same time 19:14:01 Matt_King: I think we're pretty solid on the plan for that pull request 19:14:05 present + 19:14:21 siri has joined #aria-apg 19:14:23 Matt_King: There's also scrollable listbox and multi-thumb slider. Those are both on the agenda for today's meeting 19:14:35 Matt_King: Is there anything else folks want to see included on this milestone? 19:14:45 Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with what we've got 19:14:50 Topic: PR 3139 - Scrollable listbox fix 19:14:56 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3139 19:15:08 Matt_King: jongund requested a change from the author, and it looks like they made that change 19:15:12 Matt_King: And all the tests pass 19:15:41 jongund: I have reviewed their work since they made the changes, so it looks good to me, now 19:15:59 jongund: I was doing code review and test review 19:16:39 Matt_King: I think this is now just waiting on me. I'll review it, and if it's looking good, then it'll get merged! 19:16:49 Topic: PR 3172 - Add rail click functionality to multi-thumb slider 19:16:55 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3172 19:17:19 Matt_King: This adds the functionality to the multi-thumb slider which we discussed a few weeks ago. It allows people to click on the rail to move the sliders--it moves the closest one 19:17:59 Matt_King: This changed JavaScript and CSS 19:18:22 Matt_King: It seems there's a failing check... It says the JavaScript linter is failing, jongund 19:19:58 Matt_King: Does anybody think we need to change any of the documentation about the example? It's a change to mouse behavior--it doesn't change keyboard. It doesn't change roles, states or properties, either. 19:20:34 jongund: The CSS change allows pointer events to travel through a particular element 19:20:42 Matt_King: So this doesn't change the visual appearance? 19:22:37 jongund: No. However, it occurs to me that some folks might prefer the rail itself to be a few pixels taller now that it is click-able 19:23:34 Matt_King: There's no change to design, so we need somebody to test the functionality, and we need someone to perform a code review 19:24:39 jongund: Are we supposed to be applying the "use strict" directive to all JavaScript files? 19:24:46 howard-e: Yes, that seems to be the case 19:25:25 jongund: I also updated the JavaScript to replace all the "var" declarations with "let" declarations 19:25:55 Matt_King: Should this be tested both with a mouse and with touch events, jongund? 19:26:14 jongund: I only used "click" events, but probably we should test with both 19:27:02 present+ lola 19:27:16 lola: I can volunteer if someone doesn't mind walking me through the changes that I'm looking for 19:27:32 Matt_King: The kind of testing that we want to do is documented in a link in a comment at the top of the pull request 19:27:40 lola: Okay, then, I can just use that 19:28:11 Matt_King: The specific change that jongund made is described in the linked issue. What you're looking for in this functional review is the pointer behavior is as described in the issue across multiple browsers 19:28:57 lola: Got it 19:28:59 howard-e: I can perform the code review 19:29:19 howard-e: jongund, you should be able to correct the formatting issues by running the command "npm run fix" 19:31:22 lola: My GitHub handle is lolaodelola 19:32:53 Topic: PR 3147 - SkipTo Scroll feature 19:33:00 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/3147 19:33:08 Matt_King: jongund asked for this to be back on the agenda 19:33:18 Matt_King: This is the pull request for the "skipTo" feature that has smooth scrolling 19:33:47 Matt_King: In our prior discussions, it seemed like there really wasn't a consensus around whether we even wanted to add this feature (whether it be smooth scrolling or instant scrolling) 19:34:20 Matt_King: I thought the decision was to leave it the way it is for now, but jongund, it sounded like maybe you were having second thoughts and thought we should choose one of the scrolling options. 19:34:49 jongund: The more I thought about it--since it does support "reduced motion" media query, we allow folks to opt out depending on their system configuration 19:35:05 jongund: I thought it was something that some people in the group thought was valuable 19:35:33 jongund: I like that if someone discovers it and uses it (especially on a touch device or something like that), it actually shows you where you're going to go 19:36:05 jongund: Part of my view of skipTo is that it's like a curb-cut. Maybe it's there because it's required by law, but people find other uses for it 19:37:16 jongund: Right now, I think "skipTo" is included only because it is understood as a vague requirement. I see "skipTo" as being more than just meeting an accessibility requirement. It also raises awareness of concepts like headings and landmarks to people who may not have thought about them before. That's the bigger picture for me 19:37:41 Matt_King: I think that making a change right now to just add this one particular feature to "skipTo", we would need a decision about which to do--instant or smooth 19:38:12 Matt_King: I think people liked the smooth scrolling more, but thought it was a little too fast. You said that it may have been difficult to slow down. 19:38:21 Matt_King: Also, there are even fewer people available on the call today 19:39:08 Matt_King: Years ago, you mentioned the option of having the "skipTo" menu always visible. That's a template change. Back when we were working on the redesign, Shawn seemed amenable to that idea, but it got de-prioritized because we had so much on our plates 19:39:24 Matt_King: Currently, though, "skipTo" is different on APG as it is on the rest of WAI 19:40:00 s/you mentioned/jongund mentioned/ 19:40:20 Matt_King: On the rest of WAI, I see there is a "skip to content" link. It just goes to "main" 19:40:42 jongund: That's a traditional "skipTo" link. It worked for the past 24 years; it will probably work for another 24 years 19:40:57 Matt_King: Do you think that the WAI team would be interested in upgrading its skipTo functionality, dmontalvo? 19:41:35 dmontalvo: There's an issue that Kevin opened about the skipTo keyboard interaction. It was flagged by someone that you cannot use the "tab" key throughout the interaction. That infringed WCAG 19:42:19 Matt_King: It supports arrow key navigation exclusively because it's a menu. You are supposed to "tab" out of a menu, so it would be incorrect to interpret that key differently 19:42:37 dmontalvo: That's true from an ARIA perspective, but I think the user expectation may be different 19:43:02 Matt_King: I'm happy to discuss. I just don't know why we would want to break keyboard conventions. We certainly want to follow our own guidance 19:43:21 Matt_King: The primary thing here is making the button always visible (whether it's a link or a button) 19:43:46 Matt_King: I think we did have a design for a non-very-obtrusive (but still visible) element for "skip to" 19:44:01 Matt_King: I think Isaac originally worked on it, we could probably find it 19:44:36 jongund: The default behavior is for it to be constantly visible; we configured it otherwise via an HTML "data-" attribute 19:44:52 Matt_King: So it would be a matter of how we style and position it 19:45:07 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3111 19:45:13 This issue was closed 19:45:49 dmontalvo: We can re-open the issue, but we'll definitely want to have a conversation 19:47:21 Matt_King: This is not a burning issue, clearly--not something we have to solve on a rapid time-table. But it seems like it could potentially be a win for a lot of groups (if we were to make it more visible, that is) 19:47:41 Topic: Issue 3144 - Feed keyboard interaction issue 19:47:50 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3144 19:48:18 Matt_King: Feed is not something that exists in desktop, so everything that we did in feed is kind of tentative in a way 19:48:30 Matt_King: If we had "experimental" content back in the day, we would have marked it as such 19:48:51 Matt_King: The keyboard suggestions in it are not based on desktop conventions because there is no such thing as a feed on a desktop 19:50:19 Matt_King: Judging from the most recent comments on this issue, it seems like maybe there is a problem with focus visibility in Safari 19:50:30 Matt_King: But now, I'm not sure based on the most recent comment 19:51:18 Matt_King: It's not clear to me that there is a problem, actually 19:51:46 Matt_King: I will come back to this 19:51:57 Topic: Issue 3155 - Potential combobox bug 19:52:07 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3155 19:52:49 Matt_King: This is a weird bug, but it sounds like a theoretical problem with the robustness of the code 19:53:05 Matt_King: I would like to have someone look at this issue, look at the code, and decide if this is a valid bug that we need to respond to 19:53:13 jongund: I can look at the code 19:54:29 Matt_King: I'm not going to label it a bug, yet. I'd prefer to hear your opinion, first, jongund. I'll only assign the issue to you and label it "feedback" for now 19:54:36 Topic: Issue 3159 - Tooltip placement 19:54:42 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/3159 19:55:08 Matt_King: This is another one of those things where I need the opinion of someone else to figure out what to do with the issue 19:56:20 Matt_King: I don't know if I'm following the description. Why is the large cursor going to be more below than above? Also, I'm not sure if we had any instructions related to tooltip placement 19:56:45 Matt_King: We might need some people who aren't present today... 19:57:04 howard-e: I'm also not too sure about what the report is referencing. 19:57:12 Matt_King: Would it help if they provided a screenshot? 19:57:20 howard-e: Yeah, that'd be very helpful to me 19:57:54 Matt_King: That seems like a reasonable next step. It would be nice if it were more clear, though I'm not sure if it's even in the scope of what we want to do with tooltip... Although I suppose that's what we need to decide as a group 19:58:17 Zakim, end the meeting 19:58:17 As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, howard-e, Siri, dmontalvo, jon, Matt_King, lola 19:58:20 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 19:58:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/12-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 19:58:28 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 19:58:28 Zakim has left #aria-apg 20:18:12 jongund has joined #aria-apg 21:28:10 jongund has joined #aria-apg 21:31:30 jongund has joined #aria-apg 21:47:12 jongund has joined #aria-apg 22:04:28 jongund has joined #aria-apg 22:38:11 jongund has joined #aria-apg 23:37:03 jongund has joined #aria-apg