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15:26:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:26:05 <Zakim> Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
15:26:07 <Chuck> chair:  Chuck
15:26:14 <Chuck> meeting:  AGWG-2024-11-12
15:26:22 <Chuck> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:26:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/12-ag-minutes.html Chuck
15:27:10 <Chuck> agenda+  Subgroup wrap up briefings
15:27:13 <Chuck> agenda?
15:27:18 <Chuck> zakim, clear agenda
15:27:18 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:27:21 <Chuck> agenda+  Subgroup wrap up briefings
15:27:32 <Chuck> Discussion of WCAG 3 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/129
15:27:51 <Chuck> agenda+ Discussion of Explainer https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/116#issuecomment-2444491152
15:27:57 <Chuck> agenda?
15:28:04 <Chuck> zakim, clear agenda
15:28:04 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:28:14 <Chuck> agenda+ Subgroup wrap up briefings
15:28:22 <Chuck> agenda+ Discussion of WCAG 3 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/129
15:28:34 <Chuck> agenda+ Discussion of Explainer https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/116#issuecomment-2444491152
15:28:45 <Chuck> agenda+ (New) Subgroup Work (2nd hour)
15:32:16 <Chuck> regrets:  Bruce Bailey, Azlan Cuttilan, Makoto Ueki
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15:59:40 <ChrisLoiselle> unable to scribe this week, apologies.
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16:02:19 <mbgower> scribe: mbgower
16:02:35 <Laura_Carlson> Scribing Commands and Related Info https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info
16:02:36 <mbgower> Chuck: Welcome, I will be chairing today
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16:02:56 <mbgower> Chuck: Is there anyone new to the group or new role they'd like to announce?
16:02:57 <MJ> present+
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16:03:13 <mbgower> Chuck: Any announcements?
16:03:25 <Chuck> zakim, take up item 1
16:03:25 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Subgroup wrap up briefings -- taken up [from Chuck]
16:03:30 <mbgower> Alastair: We will close the WCAG 2 CFC shortly. I need to confer with co-chairs
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16:04:01 <mbgower> Chuck: Keyboard is not going to be talking today, but will continue work.
16:04:03 <mgarrish> present+
16:04:07 <ChrisLoiselle> On keyboard, that is correct.
16:04:18 <mbgower> Chuck: In no particular order, is Giacommo or someone available?
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16:04:35 <kirkwood> present+
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16:04:43 <mbgower> Giacomo: Thank you to anyone who contributed
16:04:51 <mbgower> [Sharing screen]
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16:05:12 <mbgower> Giacomo: We divided our work into sections.
16:05:32 <kirkwood> present+
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16:05:51 <mbgower> ...  The first section is historical. Then we created a separate tab for the minute
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16:06:00 <DJ> present+
16:06:08 <mbgower> ... Then we have examples.
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16:06:34 <Jen_G> Present+
16:06:35 <mbgower> s/first section/last section
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16:07:27 <mbgower> Giacomo: We have identified several techniques. They are listed under Method List
16:07:53 <mbgower> ... Within the region methods we identified technique
16:08:25 <mbgower> ... the Regions (Minimum) has common techniques
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16:08:49 <mbgower> ... The (Enhanced) is less common.
16:09:25 <mbgower> ... We then addressed labels for groups of items -- and here we are talking about labels, not accessible names
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16:10:16 <mbgower> ... We questioned whether the technology supports headings; if so, we have a heading structure method
16:10:18 <julierawe> present+
16:10:25 <scott> present+
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16:10:50 <mbgower> ... We also asked if there are other relationships beyond headings. This is addressed by Programmatic Relationship
16:11:12 <mbgower> ... Lists, table/grid, and tree are techniques under Programmatic Relationship
16:11:25 <Chuck> q?
16:11:34 <Chuck> q+
16:11:35 <mbgower> ... We have made important progress.
16:11:39 <Chuck> ack Ch
16:11:48 <mbgower> Chuck: Are you at a stage where you can create a pull request?
16:11:57 <mbgower> Giacomo: We can do that, yes.
16:12:11 <mbgower> Chuck: Any other questions?
16:13:02 <mbgower> Chuck: Julie are you available to talk about Implied meaning?
16:13:05 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P7fOyEPVlqf1aXuJY0SO9LeC-E7EZllg/edit
16:13:33 <Chuck> q?
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16:13:46 <mbgower> Julie: I want to thank everyone in the group for their time. We think we are at a point to share this and get feedback; we're not completely done.
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16:14:35 <mbgower> ... We started off with user-centered outcomes. We listed a few audiences that would benefit beside COGA and neuro-diverse users.
16:14:56 <mbgower> ... We spent a considerable amount of time on the decision tree.
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16:15:29 <mbgower> ... We want to try as much as possible to have tools reduce the burden on humans
16:15:59 <Glenda> present+
16:16:10 <mbgower> ... the decision tree is set up to be flexible as tools improve or develop
16:16:16 <GN015> q+
16:16:33 <mbgower> ... The ultimate responsibility is with the publisher.
16:16:56 <mbgower> ... For the method list, the first is about determining if the content has non-literal text
16:17:37 <mbgower> ... We have examples in English. We thought a way to keep this from getting over-long was to use a wiki to add examples in other languages
16:17:58 <mbgower> ... Below is a list of common non-literal language
16:18:39 <mbgower> ... We have a technique to use cross-translation to identify non-literal language
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16:20:09 <GreggVan> q+
16:20:14 <mbgower> ... We have two other methods: Make text available to user agents, including assistive technology; and Explain non-literal text or provide a literal alternative.
16:20:22 <GreggVan> present+
16:20:32 <Chuck> q?
16:20:38 <mbgower> ... I wanted to thank Makoto, who has already started populating the wiki with Japanese examples.
16:20:41 <kevin> present+
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16:20:50 <Chuck> ack GN
16:20:57 <mbgower> Gundula: I have a question with the decision tree
16:21:11 <mbgower> ... Did I read it correctly that if it is read with assistive tools, it passes?
16:21:33 <mbgower> ... Users not using the tools would not see the literal meaning.
16:21:42 <alastairc> q+ for Gundula's question, it's the leveling
16:22:09 <mbgower> Julie: We are using the term "assistive technology" very broadly
16:22:42 <mbgower> ... If I as the publisher found a tool that did this automatically, I do not need to
16:22:58 <mbgower> Gundula: Some users who might need the explanation might not use the tool.
16:23:04 <scott> q+
16:23:07 <Chuck> ack Gregg
16:23:33 <mbgower> Gregg: I think that's a slippery slope. We could say 'if people are blind and they don't have a screen reader, the author should provide one'.
16:24:04 <mbgower> ... We make ALT text available but not visible.
16:24:43 <GN015> Thanks, Greg, for the real-life examples.
16:24:48 <mbgower> ... Things like standup comics should probably be excepted. All politicians speak in hyperbole.
16:25:04 <mbgower> ... I love where this is going. I'm just not sure this can be done by AI.
16:25:22 <mbgower> ... A lot of people have trouble with normal words in the language when they get above a particular level.
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16:25:55 <mbgower> ... If we had a standard tool where people entered common idioms and then that common tool could be used by tools that just detected them. They could highlight them.
16:26:06 <tiffanyburtin> present+
16:26:17 <mbgower> ... Then those would be identified at the user's option.
16:26:27 <GN015> Still, in a written text such clarification can be added to be available on request, like in tooltips or popovers (compare wikipedia providing short explanations for terms within an article).
16:26:31 <alastairc> q?
16:26:36 <mbgower> ... A dictionary shouldn't have to be provided by the author for every word a user doesn't understand.
16:26:39 <Chuck> ack ala
16:26:39 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to discuss Gundula's question, it's the leveling
16:26:47 <mbgower> ... It could be just something standard built into a browser.
16:27:00 <mbgower> Alastair: It is important to look at the levelling in the decision tree.
16:27:19 <GN015> I fully agree the nature of the text should be observed. Literature and poetry certainly have a different position than learning material.
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16:28:13 <mbgower> ... If the non-literal text is presented to user agents, this passes. That is allowing the user agent to fulfill this. We can quibble with exactly what that means.
16:28:38 <mbgower> ... The author just needs to provide text in a way the UA can pass.
16:28:42 <Chuck> ack scott
16:28:52 <mbgower> Scott: I'm going to echo some of what Gregg said.
16:29:01 <Poornima> present+
16:29:02 <mbgower> ... The thing that jumps out to me is scoping.
16:29:17 <Chuck> regrets+ Jennifer Strickland
16:29:27 <mbgower> ... How is this to be applied in different instances? Is not the context important? I know literature and poetry is called out...
16:30:06 <mbgower> ... For instance, The Onion is a satirical webiste. Is that enough context to cue that there is satire?
16:30:21 <Chuck> q?
16:30:47 <mbgower> ... If someone says "This is the worst movie I ever saw" do we need something saying "This is hyperbole. It may not be the actual worst movie the user has seen."
16:31:12 <mbgower> ... Like Gregg says, comedians having to explain their jokes...
16:31:40 <mbgower> ... Freelancers are paid very little to create their work. This requirement would place a lot of additional stress on such a job.
16:31:42 <ChrisLoiselle> q+
16:31:58 <Chuck> ack Chris
16:32:00 <mbgower> Chuck: Due to time constraints I'm going to move on...
16:32:06 <mbgower> ... Chris, if you could be brief.
16:32:35 <Chuck> zakim, close queue
16:32:35 <Zakim> ok, Chuck, the speaker queue is closed
16:32:42 <mbgower> Chris: Marketing tends to play on English language to promote products. Having to put in disclaimer on such context.
16:32:55 <alastairc> These arguement would suggest the bit above prerequisite should be in supplimental rather than baseline.
16:33:03 <mbgower> ... I was also wondering if the w3 is going to create the list, or if the user agents independently have to do this.
16:33:07 <Chuck> zakim, open queue
16:33:07 <Zakim> ok, Chuck, the speaker queue is open
16:33:17 <JJ> Chuck, I was expected to also present something on the Views subgroup - I can give a short presentation on the goals we have.
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16:33:33 <mbgower> Alastair: On Scott's point, that would be an argument for putting the author effort at the supplemental level.
16:33:40 <mbgower> ... It would become part of scoring.
16:33:53 <mbgower> ... Now, Non-text Contrast...
16:33:56 <filippo-zorzi> present+
16:34:10 <mbgower> [Sharing screen]
16:34:35 <mbgower> Alastair: We updated the outcomes to say "Users have content that does not rely on a single sense or perception"
16:35:08 <mbgower> ... Thank you to the people in the group.
16:35:47 <mbgower> ... We had discussions about making the information the same hue. That was our high level test.
16:35:56 <kirkwood> q+
16:35:59 <mbgower> ... The main bit we got to was the decision tree.
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16:36:30 <mbgower> ... Is a graphic conveying information?
16:36:49 <mbgower> ... We then become more specific than in WCAG 2.x
16:37:11 <mbgower> ... We had some supplemental methods.
16:37:45 <GN015> q+
16:38:04 <Chuck> ach kirk
16:38:13 <Chuck> ack kirk
16:38:15 <mbgower> JohnK: That first sentence bothered me
16:38:25 <mbgower> ... It seemed to be an incorrect use of the word "hue"
16:38:44 <mbgower> Alastair: Hue is part of colour. We also have luminence and contrast.
16:38:58 <mbgower> JohnK: Hue has nothing to do with this
16:39:05 <mbgower> Alastair: To do with what?
16:39:23 <mbgower> JohnK: Would you read the phrase?
16:39:28 <ljoakley> q+
16:39:49 <mbgower> Alastair: " Information conveyed by graphical elements does not rely on hue"
16:40:16 <mbgower> ... A hue would be a red. You could have different contrast with the same hue
16:40:16 <Chuck> ack GN
16:40:31 <mbgower> Gundula: I did not have the chance to participate recently.
16:40:43 <mbgower> ... It's quite a mix up between use of color and non-text contrast
16:41:02 <GreggVan> 
16:41:03 <GreggVan> Hue refers to the specific shade or tint of a color. It's the attribute that defines a pure color, without considering its lightness or darkness (value) or its intensity (saturation). Think of hues as the basic colors you see in a rainbow: red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and violet. When we talk about the hue of a color, we are referring to its position on the color wheel.
16:41:06 <GreggVan> Color is a broader term that encompasses hue, value, and saturation. It includes the overall appearance of a hue when combined with different levels of lightness and intensity. For example, "sky blue" is a color that describes a light, desaturated blue hue, while "navy blue" is a color that describes a dark, saturated blue hue. Essentially, color is the complete visual experience created by combining hue with its variations in lightness and saturation.
16:41:09 <mbgower> ... this talks about shape, for example.
16:41:39 <mbgower> ... buttons do not have outlines anymore, but are detected by their placement. So this is a big change.
16:41:43 <GreggVan> q+
16:41:48 <mbgower> Chuck: Was that a comment or a question?
16:41:56 <Chuck> ack lj
16:41:56 <mbgower> Gundula: Should we separate this more?
16:42:10 <mbgower> Lori: I have a basic question.
16:42:43 <mbgower> ... users contact me about colour. Why aren't we just using simple English words? Why not just say "light red", "dark red".
16:42:43 <alastairc> q+ to answer, but I think gregg might
16:43:01 <mbgower> ... Users don't say "this is the wrong hue of blue".
16:43:11 <Chuck> ack Gregg
16:43:12 <mbgower> ... We should avoid luminance, hue, etc.
16:43:55 <mbgower> Gregg: The reason we don't use colour is that people don't see them the same. if you have red-green colour blindness, they see red and green as the same.
16:44:26 <Rachael> q+ to say we have levels of language that could solve this
16:44:34 <alastairc> q-
16:45:09 <mbgower> ... If people do not see colour for example -- they see black and white. It's not contrast you are supposed to be measuring. You are supposed to be able to distinguish colours.
16:45:33 <mbgower> Lori: Your explanation is perfect about why I'd never use hue or luminance.
16:45:43 <mbgower> Gregg: It's not luminance, it's luminosity
16:46:12 <mbgower> ... I popped in some terms about what hue and colour is. I suggest adding those to the document.
16:46:53 <mbgower> ... It should talk about lightness and darkess -- luminosity. "Lightness" and "darkness" get into moods and genres of literature, which is why we should use "luminosity".
16:46:57 <Chuck> zakim, close queue
16:46:57 <Zakim> ok, Chuck, the speaker queue is closed
16:47:21 <mbgower> When we use the technical term, we should append "(lightness and darkness)"
16:47:29 <Chuck> ack Rach
16:47:29 <Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to say we have levels of language that could solve this
16:47:49 <Chuck> zakim, open queue
16:47:49 <Zakim> ok, Chuck, the speaker queue is open
16:47:54 <mbgower> Rachael: We do have this concept in WCAG 3 that high level we use plain language and as we get further down, it can be more technical.
16:48:04 <Chuck> zakim, take up next item
16:48:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Discussion of WCAG 3 https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/129 -- taken up [from Chuck]
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16:48:36 <LenB> present+
16:48:39 <mbgower> Chuck: This is about WCAG 3, not the explainer.
16:48:50 <Rachael> Preview: https://deploy-preview-132--wcag3.netlify.app/explainer/
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16:49:07 <Rachael> Preview for WCAG 3: https://deploy-preview-129--wcag3.netlify.app/guidelines/
16:49:15 <mbgower> Chuck: we are going to send out a pre-CFC
16:49:29 <mbgower> rachaael: Use the second link
16:49:48 <mbgower> Rachael: We had everyone review the guidelines
16:49:49 <alastairc> Gundula - could you put a comment in the doc for what you said? I didn't quite understand and couldn't note it mysefl.
16:50:02 <mbgower> ... The preview hopefully has more consistent content
16:50:32 <mbgower> ... We have editor's note where we know active research at the most basic level is needed.
16:50:54 <mbgower> ... All of this, except for Focus Appearance and Alt Text are labelled as exploratory
16:51:07 <GN015> Alastair - Yes, after the meeting. Is that fine?
16:51:31 <alastairc> Yes, thank you
16:51:32 <mbgower> ... You'll also note that a lot of material has been moved to the Explainer
16:51:52 <mbgower> ... Continue to review this over the next few days.
16:52:11 <mbgower> ... We hope to address comments, and work towards a CFC.
16:52:16 <Chuck> q?
16:52:50 <mbgower> Rachael: We are moving towards publication of the explainer.
16:53:08 <mbgower> ... Right now we are working to get the Explainer to CFC and this to pre-CFC.
16:53:26 <mbgower> Gregg: Can you put a link to the Explainer from the WCAG document?
16:53:49 <mbgower> Chuck: I don't know that I'm arguing against putting in the link, but we are segregating work on these documents.
16:54:11 <mbgower> Kevin: We can take a look at putting in a link in the abstract. Likewise for the requirements.
16:54:29 <mbgower> Gregg: Can you put in a link for the requirements?
16:54:34 <alastairc> The Abstract does already link to the "Introduction", which will also link to the explainer
16:54:50 <julierawe> q+
16:54:55 <Chuck> ack Julie
16:54:57 <mbgower> Chuck: Does anyone have concerns with how we use the next week?
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16:55:07 <alastairc> q+ to say that we know the definitions need adding, so there are red lines a lot
16:55:14 <mbgower> Julie: It is pretty minor, but as I scroll down the left column, could they be listed in alphabetical order?
16:55:30 <Chuck> ack ala
16:55:30 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to say that we know the definitions need adding, so there are red lines a lot
16:55:31 <mbgower> ... Or a logica for why they're presented as they are.
16:55:39 <kevin> -> https://deploy-preview-132--wcag3.netlify.app/explainer/ Explainer PR
16:56:03 <kevin> -> https://w3c.github.io/wcag3/requirements/ Requirements ED
16:56:07 <mbgower> Alastair: We know that there are definitions missing. Where you see red squiggly lines, we know that is missing. No need to provide comments about that.
16:56:22 <GreggVan> q+
16:56:26 <Chuck> ack Gregg
16:56:29 <mbgower> ... If regard to ordering, we can look at that. I'm not sure it's going to make much difference for this conversation.
16:56:59 <mbgower> Gregg: I think you should make it logical order, not alphabetical. ONce you translate it, it would cease being alphabetical -- which is an arbitrary order.
16:57:09 <GreggVan> q+
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16:57:18 <Chuck> q+ to ask for scribe change
16:57:26 <mbgower> Gregg: often we have a document, or put in a document, questions we have. Do we have anything like that?
16:57:28 <Rachael> q+
16:57:37 <Chuck> ack gregg
16:57:38 <mbgower> ... For instance the order of the items.
16:57:51 <julierawe> q+
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16:58:00 <alastairc> Gregg - yes, e.g. https://deploy-preview-129--wcag3.netlify.app/guidelines/#issue-container-generatedID
16:58:08 <Chuck> ack Ch
16:58:08 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to ask for scribe change
16:58:08 <Deltev> present+
16:59:26 <ljoakley> scribe+LoriO
16:59:32 <Chuck> ack Rach
16:59:38 <alastairc> scribe: ljoakley
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17:00:32 <Chuck> q?
17:00:38 <ljoakley> Gregs questions - two or 3 questions per publication, address smae fears of people, converstaion for next week to coordinate our social meida
17:01:03 <Rachael> q+
17:01:07 <Chuck> ack julie
17:01:12 <ljoakley> Gregg: are we having a list of questions that we have raised? Can we write down the questions that we havne't answered yet
17:02:00 <kirkwood> +1 to Julie
17:02:05 <Jennie_Delisi> +1 to Julie
17:02:10 <kevin> q+
17:02:24 <Chuck> ack Rach
17:02:32 <ljoakley> Julie - helpful to list major groups, it's a hugely long list, no numbers for size of guidelines, need something at the top of the doc
17:02:37 <kevin> q-
17:02:40 <alastairc> There is a big note at the top of the guidelines section
17:03:22 <ljoakley> racheal - we keep all the questions, many moved into the explainer, not in editors notes
17:03:24 <Chuck> zakim, take up next item
17:03:24 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Discussion of Explainer https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/116#issuecomment-2444491152 -- taken up [from Chuck]
17:03:33 <kirkwood> +1 to Rachael Plain language summary seemingly would be able to handle it
17:03:46 <kevin> -> https://deploy-preview-132--wcag3.netlify.app/explainer/ Explainer PR
17:03:48 <ljoakley> Chick - next dicussion of the explainer, a link was posted earlier
17:03:54 <GreggVan> q+
17:04:27 <alastairc> q+ on the update
17:04:37 <ljoakley> Chuck - time spent on the explainer, permission to go to CFC with the explainer, recent updates which were positive, Kevin moved somethings around
17:05:22 <ljoakley> Kevin - moved a section to the explainer, added some TBD in terms, we will make a definition
17:05:24 <Chuck> ack Gregg
17:05:40 <Jennie_Delisi> * Nice use of wayfinding support in the table of contents: bold text, white space, numbers.
17:06:08 <ljoakley> Gregg - absract needs an abstract, what is the purose of the document
17:06:15 <Chuck> ack ala
17:06:15 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on the update
17:06:16 <alastairc> The updates from our last discussions were https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/116/commits/a60c9d57fb3880c047d353a79f25be0ab4cfca97#diff-cbc10fb4d19472d5b1b3fdc6f39509c1f90afaba3822f0a4f18396175120a24cL217
17:06:51 <ljoakley> Alistair - updates amde based on discussions, all changes in above link, look here for updates
17:07:00 <ljoakley> Chuck - one comment already
17:07:22 <ljoakley> Gregg - guidelines preview?
17:07:24 <Chuck> https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/116/commits/a60c9d57fb3880c047d353a79f25be0ab4cfca97#diff-cbc10fb4d19472d5b1b3fdc6f39509c1f90afaba3822f0a4f18396175120a24cL217
17:07:30 <ljoakley> Racheal - use what Alistair put in
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17:08:06 <ljoakley> Alistair - additonal notes on including recommendations, adjustments to assertion section
17:08:28 <ljoakley> Gregg - comments should be made in the doc linked to, where?
17:08:54 <Rachael> I believe the current explainer is at https://deploy-preview-132--wcag3.netlify.app/explainer/
17:09:08 <ljoakley> Racheal - talking about the guidelines, chuck is talking about the explainer, what Kevin put in, no google doc, add comments in github
17:09:27 <ljoakley> Chuck - comments will be in github, questions about explainer?
17:09:55 <Chuck> Draft RESOLUTION:  Pending updates to Abstract, Explainer can go to CFC for publication.
17:10:05 <ljoakley> Chuck - know we will get feedback on abstract
17:10:41 <ljoakley> Alistair - Wendy added comments, take care of those editorial changes before CFC
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17:10:53 <wendyreid> +1
17:10:54 <Chuck> +1
17:10:55 <GreggVan> +1
17:10:56 <ShawnT> +1
17:10:56 <julierawe> +1
17:10:57 <Laura_Carlson> +1
17:10:57 <Rachael> +1
17:10:57 <alastairc> s/ take care of / we can take care of
17:10:58 <ljoakley> +1
17:10:59 <MJ> +1
17:10:59 <Jennie_Delisi> +1
17:11:00 <alastairc> +1
17:11:01 <tiffanyburtin> +1
17:11:01 <DJ> +1
17:11:01 <mgarrish> +1
17:11:02 <LenB> +1
17:11:03 <Francis_Storr> +1
17:11:03 <Glenda> +1
17:11:03 <ChrisLoiselle> +1
17:11:05 <filippo-zorzi> +1
17:11:06 <Gez> +1
17:11:08 <stevef> +1
17:11:11 <Jen_G> +1
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17:11:16 <Jon_avila> +1
17:11:20 <jtoles> +1
17:11:22 <Frankie> +1
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17:11:25 <Chuck> RESOLUTION:  Pending updates to Abstract, Explainer can go to CFC for publication.
17:11:26 <ToddL> +1
17:11:29 <JeanneEC> +1
17:11:29 <Chuck> zakim, take up next item
17:11:29 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- (New) Subgroup Work (2nd hour) -- taken up [from Chuck]
17:11:52 <ljoakley> Hcuck - final item, new subgroups, DJ comment about the views subgroup?
17:12:24 <Chuck> q+
17:12:32 <ljoakley> JJ - what is expected during the meeting? I have my presentation from view subgroup
17:12:49 <alastairc> q+ on Views
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17:13:10 <Chuck> ack ala
17:13:10 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on Views
17:13:14 <ljoakley> Chuck - remainder is for new subgroups to meet, introduce, not to present, it's a kickoff meeting, times proposed are the best, then begin subgroup work
17:14:09 <ljoakley> Alistair - views is working a definition rather than a guideline, JJ should go through presentation of view, next steps gather examples, mostly about examples in Views
17:14:29 <JJ> TPAC session for Views: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2024-breakouts/issues/46 Minutes: https://www.w3.org/2024/09/25-views-minutes.html Slides: https://janjaap.com/tpac2024/
17:14:46 <alastairc> q+ on Giacomo's question
17:15:51 <Chuck> Views:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pN6zc0YjxY2TmhmrSii0Y5ghzjdNOqMV5F4a_Dfqsyo/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.7bct10877dbh
17:16:03 <Chuck> Voice Control:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IpVHc8-PRn7z-wqZ32G4zG4CjFdZT0HAJ787WfUxNP0/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.nykct8nbnejl
17:16:07 <ljoakley> Chuck - 4 subgroups, announces subgroup leaders, long list of people to lead the new subgroups, jump into your subgroups, introduce yourselves
17:16:13 <Chuck> Text Contrast:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EGEgRebgj8XfvwU-Fx2kAtd-3Ifl-UkEgyOxT1Xc5UY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti
17:16:15 <Frankie> Frankie has joined #ag
17:16:25 <Chuck> Text To Speech:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EGEgRebgj8XfvwU-Fx2kAtd-3Ifl-UkEgyOxT1Xc5UY/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti
17:16:26 <Chuck> q?
17:16:28 <Chuck> ack Ch
17:16:32 <Chuck> ack ala
17:16:32 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on Giacomo's question
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17:17:04 <ljoakley> Alistair - grab template? looking for link to google doc
17:17:13 <Rachael> Views page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pN6zc0YjxY2TmhmrSii0Y5ghzjdNOqMV5F4a_Dfqsyo/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.7bct10877dbh
17:17:13 <ljoakley> chuck - plase jump into that subgroup
17:17:31 <ShawnT> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BIcyTcyGz-vb6FCAzzhXcXFukktgjUU6-dM0rYsuYMM/edit?tab=t.0
17:17:35 <Frankie> Frankie has joined #ag
17:17:46 <Rachael> text to speech https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BIcyTcyGz-vb6FCAzzhXcXFukktgjUU6-dM0rYsuYMM/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti
17:19:32 <Jamie> Jamie has joined #ag
17:19:36 <Jamie> present+
17:20:16 <Jamie> Hello all how do I join one of the subgroups?
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17:42:59 <Graham> present+
17:50:21 <kevin> Sorry folks!
17:50:25 <alastairc> Ah, we got cut off
17:50:32 <kevin> Restart meeting
17:50:41 <GreggVan> we all got cut off I  think
17:50:48 <GreggVan> just rejoin?
17:50:50 <Rachael> Please sign back into the meeting
17:50:51 <kevin> Yup
17:53:52 <JJ> Views breakout room has re-opened, please rejoin :)
17:55:57 <alastairc> BTW, "text contrast" would like to update the name to "text appearance" in future, to align with the actual guideline text.
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18:18:30 <Laura_Carlson> rrsagent, make minutes
18:18:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/12-ag-minutes.html Laura_Carlson
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