14:44:28 RRSAgent has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 14:44:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-wot-ngsi-ld-irc 14:47:10 meeting: WoT and NGSI-LD 14:55:43 present+ Kaz_Ashimura 14:55:49 rrsagent, make log public 15:00:59 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WoT-NGSI-LD#November_11,_2024 15:01:06 present+ Martin_Bauer 15:01:28 present+ Dave_Raggett 15:01:41 durkinza has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:05:28 present+ Michael_McCool, Franck_Le_Gall 15:05:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:05:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz 15:06:15 regrets+ Sebastian 15:06:46 topic: Agenda 15:07:05 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WoT-NGSI-LD#November_11,_2024 Agenda for today 15:07:16 mm: we should talk about the next meeting too 15:08:19 McCool has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:08:31 kaz: btw, for today, I can take notes 15:08:46 mm: tx. should have a scribe list too 15:09:15 ... also should clarify who/how to chair the call too 15:09:21 topic: Minutes 15:09:36 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/28-ngsi-minutes.html Oct-28 15:09:52 mm: (skims the minutes) 15:10:15 martin has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:11:43 ... several typos, e.g., "ThingModel" to be split 15:11:45 (fixed) 15:11:48 (approved) 15:11:57 topic: Logistics 15:12:16 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld GitHub repo 15:12:25 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WoT-NGSI-LD Wiki page 15:12:33 -> https://irc.w3.org/?channels=wot-ngsi-ld IRC channel 15:12:57 mm: have created a dedicated GitHub repo, Wiki page and IRC channel for this liaison 15:13:07 ... also the W3C Liaison table has been updated 15:13:19 -> https://www.w3.org/liaisons/#ETSI Liaison table 15:13:31 kaz: yes, updated with the liaison contacts 15:13:45 topic: Next meeting 15:13:58 mm: in two weeks, we'll have a F2F meeting in Munich 15:14:10 ... so would cancel the NGSI liaison call 15:14:19 ... the next meeting after that will be Dec 5 15:14:26 s/5/10/ 15:15:14 ... what about the timezone? 15:15:26 kaz: for the liaison discussion during WoT Week? 15:15:36 q+ 15:15:58 mm: would have presentation from ETSI during the WoT Week meeting 15:16:14 ... would expect a slot of half an hour or so 15:16:18 q- 15:16:31 mb: F2F? 15:16:43 mm: can join the meeting remotely as well 15:16:51 ... a Zoom call will be available 15:17:03 ... the date will be Thursday/Friday 15:17:28 s/mb:/fg:/ 15:17:46 (Nov 28-29) 15:18:00 mm: let's clarify the timezone 15:18:05 fg: located in Munich 15:18:26 ... Thursday is OK. no constraints and can accommodate 15:18:36 q+ 15:19:33 s/Thursday/Friday/ 15:19:57 s/Munich/Munich. Thursday after 4pm/ 15:20:13 mb: all day Thursday 15:20:20 ... not 2-3pm on Friday 15:20:42 mm: would expect a 30min slot 15:20:56 ... including 15min presentation and 15min discussion 15:21:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:21:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz 15:21:17 mm: (then shows the WoT Week wiki) 15:21:53 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Wiki_for_WoT_Week_2024_planning WoT Week wiki 15:22:16 mm: regarding the liaison call, let's cancel the call 15:22:45 ... (put "Cancelled") on the NGSI-LD wiki 15:23:04 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WoT-NGSI-LD#November_25,_2024 Nov-25 15:23:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:23:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz 15:24:05 mm: regarding the time for the presentation during WoT Week, we'll finalize the time on Wednesday (during the Plugfest call) 15:24:25 topic: Chair 15:24:55 mm: is anybody from you interested in chairing the call? 15:24:56 q+ 15:25:19 s/10/9/ 15:25:51 q- 15:26:33 kaz: given the mechanism of W3C calls is a bit complicated, I'd suggest we continue to ask you, McCool, to chair the call :) 15:26:35 mm: ok 15:26:45 topic: Deliverables and Resources 15:27:16 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1209 wot PR 1209 - Activate Liaison for ETSI ISG CIM for NGSI-LD 15:27:28 mm: got a comment from Ege Korkan (from Siemens) 15:28:27 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/b7a0578b4490a088e6caf25ad4bb0f6f3d610acc/liaisons/etsi/isg-cim-ngsi-ld.md Rendered MD 15:29:27 mm: (adds some edits directly) 15:29:50 ... we don't usually say "Things Descriptions" 15:30:00 ... should be "Thing Description" 15:31:20 ... Thing Model describes some class of devices 15:32:02 ... if NGSI-LD behaves as a broker, it's kind of similar to the WoT Thing Registry 15:32:28 s/Registry/Directory/ 15:32:37 ... so it's not just about Binding Templates 15:32:49 q+ 15:33:06 mb: not 100% sure... 15:33:27 ... TD basically can describe how the NGSI-LD can work with it 15:33:51 mm: NGSI-LD itself is still a REST API 15:34:03 present+ Juanjo_Hierro 15:34:45 q? 15:35:02 ... here the description is a bit vague 15:35:42 fg: there were two bullet points there 15:36:01 ... and those points have been consolidated as a possible deliverable 15:36:31 jh: the first point is describing what W3C could publish 15:36:53 ... while the second point describes the deliverable by the ETSI side 15:37:21 q? 15:38:19 ... WoT Thing Model describes how a Thing Description can be derived to describe a device 15:39:13 mm: the idea here is what the Consumers of WoT would be like 15:39:25 s/like/like, e.g., for Smart Cities/ 15:39:47 ... I actually like the first part here 15:40:21 jh: considering NGSI-LD as a form to handle devices 15:41:19 ... a possible context broker could access NGSI-LD 15:41:35 mm: should extend NGSI-LD by some standard protocol 15:42:13 ... NGSI-LD broker needs to generate WoT Thing Description to consume a Thing 15:43:47 jh: WoT Thing Description can be adopted 15:44:21 ... then the NGSI-LD broker will handle actual devices 15:44:38 ... using the WoT Thing Model mechanism 15:44:56 q? 15:45:53 mm: NGSI-LD is a proxy? 15:46:14 ... Things have to be devices 15:46:23 q? 15:46:38 ... this idea itself is correct, but need clarification 15:47:01 ... could do something like this... 15:49:55 kaz: two comments 15:50:40 ... 1. for today, we should add two sub sections, (1) expectation for W3C and (2) expectation for ETSI 15:51:17 ... 2. we should invite the ETSI guys to the WoT Week meeting not only for the presentation but also for some more detailed discussion about our expectations for the possible deliverables 15:51:53 ... probably, we should clarify some concrete use cases and also drawing a basic diagram of expected devices and applications (and brokers) would be helpful 15:52:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:52:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz 15:52:32 fg: adding information to the "Scope" section also would make sense 15:53:07 mm: (adds "W3C WoT WG to develop..." and "ETSI ISG CIM to develop..." to the Scope section) 15:53:54 ... W3C: NGSILD Binding that defines what infrmation is needed in a Thing Description to communicate with an NGSI-LD Context Broker. 15:54:05 jh: not really sure about that 15:54:18 ... Thing Description is a paper which describes Thing's capability 15:55:01 ... Context Broker accesses Things and Entities. 15:55:28 mm: think we're on the same page... 15:55:36 q+ 15:55:55 ... WoT Consumer can read the Thing Description and handle the Thing 15:56:47 ... we can leave out the "Alternatives" description within the "Delverables" section 15:56:59 TallTed has joined #wot-ngsi-ld 15:57:14 RRSAgent, pointer? 15:57:14 See https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-wot-ngsi-ld-irc#T15-57-14 15:57:26 ... on the other hand, we can add clarification to the scope of the ETSI work 15:57:48 ... describing how to use a WoT Thing Description for NGSI-LD model descriptions 15:58:18 jh: don't know how we should express that... 15:58:31 q? 15:59:14 fg: (give comments on ETSI's deliverable) 15:59:43 mm: Extend ETSI GR-055 or another document to include the use of WoT Thing Description for NGSI-LD model description 16:00:01 jh: would seewhat is needed for the compatibility 16:00:04 s/seewhat/see what/ 16:00:28 mm: extend existing specifications? 16:00:33 jh: two things 16:00:44 Outside (but maybe inside?) observation -- acronyms need expansion, at least for first use, at least at top of https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WoT-NGSI-LD and https://github.com/w3c/wot-ngsi-ld. At *minimum*, "NGSI-LD" needs expansion. 16:00:48 ... 1. we'll extend the specifications 16:01:39 q? 16:02:04 jh: currently, some activity is ongoing 16:02:32 ... then 2. understand how the WoT Thing Model can be used to rebase the NGSI-LD based systems 16:03:02 mm: let's see we can nail down what we expect 16:03:22 ... maybe you can fill into the "Gaps" section with your expected gaps 16:03:41 q+ 16:07:29 kaz: NGSI-LD and WoT Thing Description are similar to each other 16:08:34 ... but it seems we have a bit different views and are using a bit different terminology to describe our expectations 16:13:25 ... so would suggest we clarify our expectations based on some concrete use case including (1) Things and Consumers from the WoT side and (2) Context Brokers and Devices 16:14:22 mm: that's possible but the "Simple Liaison" document should describe our high-level expectations for the liaison 16:15:23 kaz: if we really want to focus on the high-level expectations, we should not dive into the details of the mechanism but should simply clarify expected document on the W3C side and the ETSI side 16:16:16 ... I think we can merge this PR 1209 itself and then continue that high-level discussion based on the resulted MD 16:16:51 mm: that's possible but this PR 209 moves the liaison target document from the "proposals" area to the "liaison" area 16:17:16 s/itself/itself with keeping the "DRAFT" title/ 16:17:48 kaz: given the discussion today, we should rather keep the draft document under the "proposals" area with the title of "DRAFT" then 16:18:09 mm: we're out of time, so let's continue the discussion next time 16:18:11 [adjourned] 16:18:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:18:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-wot-ngsi-ld-minutes.html kaz