15:59:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pronunciation
15:59:25 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-pronunciation-irc
15:59:25 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:59:26 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
15:59:37 <janina> Meeting Spoken Presentation Task Force Teleconference
15:59:43 <janina> Date 11 Nov 2024
15:59:49 <janina> Chair: Paul
16:01:28 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #pronunciation
16:04:59 <janina> present+
16:05:03 <janina> scribe+
16:05:18 <janina> Chair: Matthew
16:05:27 <janina> Chair: Paul, Irfan
16:05:31 <matatk> matatk has joined #pronunciation
16:05:46 <matatk> agenda?
16:05:46 <IrfanA> IrfanA has joined #pronunciation
16:05:51 <IrfanA> present+
16:05:58 <matatk> agenda+ Planning further work
16:06:01 <matatk> present_
16:06:04 <matatk> present+
16:06:04 <matatk> scribe+
16:06:07 <matatk> zakim, next item
16:06:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Planning further work -- taken up [from matatk]
16:06:14 <alan> alan has joined #pronunciation
16:06:38 <janina> matatk: Reviews the back story: We met with CSS at TPAC and had a great reception
16:06:53 <alan> present+
16:06:54 <janina> matatk: They want to see CSS-Speech adopted.
16:07:04 <janina> matatk: Asked for tech agnostic use cases
16:07:33 <janina> matatk: We have come to believe CSS-Speech is a lot like "styling," and we can use a subset of it
16:07:46 <janina> matatk: Problem is implementations--how do we get some?
16:08:11 <janina> matatk: A need is well documented in community; Ed sector is using data- to accomplish
16:08:31 <janina> matatk: We have a notion on how to move forward ...
16:09:07 <janina> matatk: Our approach seemed to big ... Browsers were reticent to implement SSML
16:09:38 <janina> matatk: Plan: Document use cases as tech agnostic as we can
16:10:26 <janina> matatk: Goals from that would be distinguish homonyms
16:10:37 <janina> matatk: there are others
16:11:16 <janina> matatk: Suggested language lerning use case
16:12:02 <janina> matatk: APA Chairs and our Staff Contact Roy are in favor of this approach
16:12:11 <janina> alan: CSS Speech?
16:12:21 <janina> PaulG: More of a divide and conquer approach
16:12:40 <janina> PaulG: Some aspects in CSS-
16:13:06 <janina> -Speech; but an additional component
16:13:45 <janina> alan: Example?
16:14:08 <matatk> q+ to talk about mappings
16:14:11 <janina> allassume css speech for breaks, etc
16:14:22 <janina> allother would be content--but what? example would help
16:14:33 <janina> PaulG: Specific pronunciation
16:14:49 <matatk> s/allassume/alan: assume/
16:14:58 <janina> s/specific/Author-controlled specific
16:15:03 <matatk> s/allother/alan: other/
16:15:07 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
16:15:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-pronunciation-minutes.html matatk
16:15:40 <janina> PaulG: We still need solution for abbrievations, subs, etc
16:15:52 <matatk> q?
16:16:11 <janina> PaulG: sub, alias ...
16:16:32 <janina> ack ma
16:16:32 <Zakim> matatk, you wanted to talk about mappings
16:17:01 <janina> matatk: One advantages of this approach that we might be able to solve more fundamental problems, e.g.
16:17:23 <janina> matatk: styling might work on mappings; so perhaps emphasis is mapped into a11y-tree
16:17:31 <janina> matatk: or to ignore it!
16:17:59 <janina> matatk: We were considering sarcasm
16:18:34 <janina> matatk: If we can make the other module about semantics, it would be powerful
16:18:48 <janina> PaulG: How we say numbers is another big one
16:19:05 <matatk> q+ to ask about next steps, and groups
16:19:27 <janina> PaulG: The more accuracy the better
16:20:04 <matatk> ack me
16:20:04 <Zakim> matatk, you wanted to ask about next steps, and groups
16:20:07 <janina> PaulG: Believe this two pronged is more likely to suceed
16:20:15 <janina> s/suceed/succeed/
16:20:31 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
16:20:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-pronunciation-minutes.html janina
16:20:46 <janina> matatk: Feels like we have an emerging consensus for the two pronged approach
16:20:57 <janina> matatk: First step would be the use case doc
16:21:27 <janina> matatk: Next would be deciding what kind of group to work .. CG?
16:21:46 <janina> matatk: So much easier to get people into a CG
16:22:58 <janina> alan: Changing to css-speech would be a lot of work and a concern because of so little support from browsers
16:23:33 <janina> alan: We're trying to speak dialog boxes and suddenly the OS is pronouncing 'No' as 'number'
16:24:03 <janina> alan: There are good reasons to like css-speech, could have different speaking profiles
16:25:02 <janina> matatk: We're back to the beginning actually, but our experience makes us believe we can still get there
16:25:23 <janina> matatk: ?Real world experience documented would be helpful
16:25:58 <janina> matatk: Any experience on list using web api would be super helpful
16:27:21 <janina> PaulG: We will likely have multiple solutions, but we need some approaches that honor defined spoken presentation
16:27:22 <matatk> s/suddenly the OS/suddenly some implementation of Web Speech API/
16:27:30 <janina> PaulG: instead of heuristics!
16:27:45 <janina> PaulG: Do have hope after this last TPAC
16:27:57 <matatk> PaulG: Language evolves fast, and heuristics (especially in the speech engines) don't. We need author control to ensure people are included.
16:28:27 <janina> matatk: data- is great -- pave the cow path
16:28:56 <janina> matatk: It helps us make the case that good standards need to be created
16:29:37 <janina> matatk: Any thoughts on how to start?
16:30:49 <janina> matatk: Emphasizes participation here is open and treasured
16:31:06 <janina> IrfanA: Should we start a new use case doc?
16:31:32 <janina> matatk: Let me take that  under advisement ?
16:31:55 <janina> matatk: Needs to be use cases that will communicate. It may just be a reformulation of what's already there
16:32:22 <janina> matatk: We'll never lose what we have even if we make a new version
16:32:28 <PaulG> I'm in favor of talking about this in email or another meeting this week. I need to drop.
16:32:51 <janina> matatk: Suggest pick out use cases separate from tech
16:36:27 <janina> matatk: Suggests asking CSS with what we propose we could do. Phps split gap from use cases
16:37:17 <janina> matatk: Suggest we draft some before we ask for feedback not to overburden people
16:37:59 <janina> IrfanA: suggest creating a skeleton of new doc --a template
16:40:10 <janina> zakim, end meeting
16:40:10 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, IrfanA, matatk, alan
16:40:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:40:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/11-pronunciation-minutes.html Zakim
16:40:19 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, janina; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:40:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pronunciation
16:40:35 <janina> rrsagent, bye
16:40:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items