14:37:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:37:28 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-wcag2ict-irc
14:37:28 <Zakim> inviting RRSAgent
14:37:28 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:37:29 <Zakim> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:37:30 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:37:31 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:37:36 <maryjom> chair:  Mary Jo Mueller
14:37:51 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
14:37:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
14:38:23 <maryjom> regrets: Löic Martínez Normand, Mike Pluke
14:38:29 <maryjom> agenda+ Announcements
14:38:40 <maryjom> agenda+ Retrospective
14:38:47 <maryjom> agenda+ Phase 2 of WCAG2ICT update
14:38:53 <maryjom> agenda ?
14:39:12 <maryjom> Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:39:12 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
14:39:24 <maryjom> present+
14:44:49 <ChrisLoiselle> present+
14:58:48 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:59:02 <bruce_bailey> present+
14:59:45 <bruce_bailey> zaikim, agenda?
15:00:39 <maryjom> agenda?
15:00:45 <shadi> shadi has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:51 <PhilDay> PhilDay has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:55 <shadi> present+
15:01:00 <PhilDay> present+
15:03:06 <bruce_bailey> CEN meeting in our thoughts!
15:03:23 <ChrisLoiselle> scribe: ChrisLoiselle
15:03:39 <ChrisLoiselle> zakim, take up next
15:03:39 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:04:17 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Welcome back!
15:04:28 <PhilDay> Congratulations Chris!
15:04:54 <bruce_bailey> Thank you Chris!
15:04:58 <ChrisLoiselle> Announcement, Chris is co-facilitator on  this effort.
15:05:25 <PhilDay> Chris: Appreciate the opportunity, looking forward to continuing to work with you all.
15:05:59 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: AGWG is starting in on WCAG 3 work, so Chuck is stepping away from this group but still involved.
15:06:27 <ChrisLoiselle> We will keep him up to date on our task force's efforts.
15:06:32 <mitch11> mitch11 has joined #wcag2ict
15:06:48 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Any affiliation changes or job changes?
15:07:15 <bruce_bailey> Congratulations to Laura!
15:07:20 <ChrisLoiselle> Laura M: I am now at GSA , in government wide accessibility team.
15:07:25 <ChrisLoiselle> Congrats Laura!!!!!
15:07:39 <ChrisLoiselle> Larua M: Working on hardware baseline work with Access Board.
15:08:17 <ChrisLoiselle> Sam: With WCAG 3 moving forward, is there a thought about working more within their vs. WCAG2ICT ?
15:08:29 <lbm> lbm has joined #wcag2ict
15:08:30 <ChrisLoiselle> Or is there a group looking at there as well?
15:08:35 <lbm> present+
15:08:41 <lbm> (Laura Miller)
15:08:58 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: We are a part of that group and will be keeping that in mind , for example for language and interpretations.
15:09:00 <shadi> q+
15:09:25 <ChrisLoiselle> ... you can attend AGWG as you are a member of this task force.
15:09:46 <ChrisLoiselle> Let us get in to the work statement that may cover that.
15:10:35 <ChrisLoiselle> Shadi: WCAG3 timelines are long and may be unpredictable. They are also working on WCAG 2 and WCAG 3. I see that as working within WCAG2ICT as part of that umbrella.
15:10:53 <ChrisLoiselle> ... I think it is helpful for those who want to go above and beyond.
15:11:02 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:11:09 <PhilDay> ack shadi
15:11:24 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:11:41 <ChrisLoiselle> zakim , take up next
15:11:46 <ChrisLoiselle> zakim, take up next
15:11:46 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Retrospective -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:11:53 <ChrisLoiselle> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRklm7C24AdjC_DRfA8M6Nfglh8WFWwUAnFCrsPCE5o/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.bbbinvj1vb6j
15:12:43 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: AGWG did a retrospective and I feel it went well.
15:13:30 <PhilDay> zakim, set timer for 5 minutes
15:13:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'set timer for 5 minutes', PhilDay
15:13:35 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Feel free to add in comments and thoughts in to Google Doc. Shared on zoom visually too.
15:14:46 <Sam> Sam has joined #wcag2ict
15:15:54 <Sam> present +
15:16:10 <PhilDay> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRklm7C24AdjC_DRfA8M6Nfglh8WFWwUAnFCrsPCE5o/edit?tab=t.0
15:16:15 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #wcag2ict
15:16:29 <ShawnT> present+
15:16:40 <maryjom> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRklm7C24AdjC_DRfA8M6Nfglh8WFWwUAnFCrsPCE5o/edit?usp=sharing
15:17:56 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:19:45 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Are we wrapping up on the retrospective comments?
15:20:18 <ChrisLoiselle> Laura: Parking lot definition?
15:20:36 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Side topic , perhaps where we would log on what we couldn't do or would like to do.
15:21:21 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Covers retro comments within the Google Doc. Please see the Google doc for detail https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRklm7C24AdjC_DRfA8M6Nfglh8WFWwUAnFCrsPCE5o/edit?usp=sharing
15:21:34 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:22:48 <bruce_bailey> FWIW, Google docs now has feature for tabs (similar to spreadsheet). Makes me like docs better!
15:23:12 <ShawnT> +1 bruce_bailey
15:24:34 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: On things to work, timeboxing and moving things along is noted as an area to work on. Note on not re-litigating already covered content again and again.
15:24:57 <bruce_bailey> q+
15:25:00 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Late feedback did disrupt flow and progress sometimes.
15:25:01 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:25:08 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
15:25:15 <PhilDay> q+
15:25:31 <ChrisLoiselle> Bruce: Minus one to Google docs was brought up by Phil.
15:25:37 <ShawnT> q+
15:25:53 <ChrisLoiselle> Phil: that was me noting who said comment. I did find it useful overall but it does have limitations.
15:25:53 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:26:20 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Breakout sessions would be a opportunity to develop content.
15:26:36 <maryjom> ack shawn
15:26:48 <Sam> Sam has joined #wcag2ict
15:27:05 <ChrisLoiselle> ShawnT : I wanted to -1 the Google docs, as it doesn't work with text to speech . Word to read.
15:27:08 <PhilDay> q+
15:27:09 <ChrisLoiselle> q+
15:27:30 <Sam> could we use office 365? is it more accessible?
15:27:33 <ChrisLoiselle> Daniel: I hear that issue and also appreciate it.
15:27:37 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:27:50 <ChrisLoiselle> Phil: Could we review alternatives?
15:28:21 <ChrisLoiselle> ShawnT: I'm lead on text to speech within WCAG 3, I've suggested Word doc in Google drive and update in Word.
15:28:23 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:28:47 <ChrisLoiselle> ShawnT: Google blocks Apples ability to read.
15:29:08 <maryjom> ack PhilDay
15:29:08 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: I was unaware. Apologies. We will look in to it.
15:29:10 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:29:17 <ChrisLoiselle> Phil: I think we should investigate
15:29:17 <maryjom> ack ChrisLoiselle
15:29:20 <PhilDay> ack PhilDay
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15:30:10 <mitch117> present+
15:30:47 <ChrisLoiselle> Google and screen reader is also issue. Downloading Google docs and sharing in email before and after call on documents in Word helped in other groups.
15:31:28 <ChrisLoiselle> Laura: Getting people up to speed on calls they may have missed , not necessarily new people to the group.
15:31:31 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:32:24 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: We do our best to avoid re-opening or repeating what we've consensed on.
15:33:18 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Review the wiki and bring back concerns would be helpful. Goal is to move forward and not have feedback at end of our work that we have to re-address.
15:34:00 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Merging will hopefully be more timely to allow for better GitHub review.
15:34:30 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Perhaps we can pull in Mobile Task Force with our efforts as we move forward. Synergies would be there for sure.
15:35:51 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: On progress, setting goals, deadlines and outcomes and high level action items is beneficial. Ad hoc sessions did work too.
15:36:18 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: having consensed information present during conversation is useful during topic discussions.
15:37:15 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: On parking lot comments - Techniques would be beneficial, however would be on a community group path. We aren't chartered to do so in WCAG2ICT
15:38:03 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: topic of recommendations was brought forward. We can review with AGWG on that vs. the if applies logic we have been following.
15:38:31 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: On out of scope topics, need to find alternatives on this on how to address. Perhaps best practices.
15:38:32 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:39:05 <ChrisLoiselle> Sam: On formal objections vs. not objecting. If we have a reference to ground rules, that would be beneficial to have.
15:39:31 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: On consensus document, AGWG has a resource and we will share with group. (Action item)
15:40:10 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: I think we can move away from the retro, any other comments?
15:40:14 <ChrisLoiselle> zakim, take up next
15:40:14 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Phase 2 of WCAG2ICT update -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:40:22 <bruce_bailey> This close, WCAG3 oriented: https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/groups/agwg/decision-policy/
15:40:22 <maryjom> TOPIC: Updating the WCAG2ICT work statement
15:40:41 <bruce_bailey> s/This close/This is close
15:41:25 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Talks to work statement and possible explainer for scope of note.
15:41:41 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Would help policy makers understand scope without reading entire note.
15:42:05 <bruce_bailey> W3C process document:  https://www.w3.org/policies/process/
15:42:08 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: The explainer is not covered by current work statement.
15:42:46 <ChrisLoiselle> The explainer would be added to work statement, which would include deliverables within phase 2.
15:43:30 <ChrisLoiselle> The work statement would then need to go to AGWG review to then make those changes within the work itself.
15:43:33 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
15:43:38 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:43:47 <maryjom> TOPIC: Part 1 - Proposed updates to the work statement
15:43:57 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:43:58 <maryjom> PR 942: https://github.com/w3c/wai-website/pull/942/files
15:44:18 <ChrisLoiselle> Sam: Can we remove or edit certain parts of it? AAA requirements for example?
15:44:41 <mitch117> q+
15:44:47 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: We did previous agreed it would be part of it, however we'd need to discuss that here again if we want to remove AAA from work statement.
15:44:47 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:44:49 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:45:00 <ChrisLoiselle> Mitchell: Is it possible?
15:45:11 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Not sure if AGWG would agree to that , would need to review.
15:45:30 <PhilDay> q+ to say we should prioritise the explainer over the AAA SCs
15:45:33 <ChrisLoiselle> Mitchell: None of us is required to attend, so we don't necessarily need to attend and contribute
15:45:34 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:45:35 <maryjom> ack PhilDay
15:45:36 <Zakim> PhilDay, you wanted to say we should prioritise the explainer over the AAA SCs
15:46:02 <ChrisLoiselle> Phil: I would say we should prioritize explainer over the AAAs if we had time to do so. Explainer may be more beneficial.
15:46:15 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:46:17 <Sam> +1 to Phil comments
15:46:44 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: I did have the explainer in parallel with the AAA
15:46:56 <PhilDay> https://github.com/w3c/wai-website/pull/942/files
15:48:28 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Line 45 was to add in the explainer.
15:48:56 <ChrisLoiselle> We will have to reference original work statement when referencing 54 and 55 lines on particular non - web tech scope.
15:49:10 <mitch117> q+
15:49:19 <bruce_bailey> q+
15:49:25 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: We aren't supposed to offer normative changes.
15:49:31 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:49:39 <Sam> q+
15:49:59 <ChrisLoiselle> Mitch: Question on Bruce we might want to say what is applicable.
15:50:27 <ChrisLoiselle> ....if something does have video, if video is not present , whether or not it applies. What do you mean by applicable?
15:50:42 <ChrisLoiselle> Bruce: I didn't mean in that context.
15:51:03 <Sam> +100 Bruce comment!
15:51:03 <ChrisLoiselle> Bruce: I think we should keep asking about making practical statements on the usefulness of WCAG2ICT.
15:51:23 <ChrisLoiselle> Mitch: Pertinent or relevance vs. applicable would be better term perhaps vs. applicable.
15:51:27 <lbm> +1 bruce
15:51:30 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:51:31 <maryjom> ack bruce_bailey
15:51:34 <maryjom> ack Sam
15:51:55 <lbm> q+
15:52:31 <maryjom> q?
15:52:42 <ChrisLoiselle> Sam: My questions where on what it was not going to do. For example, when they are relevant and how. I think reasoning is justified as beneficial to the larger AGWG group.
15:52:43 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:52:43 <maryjom> ack lbm
15:53:51 <ChrisLoiselle> Laura: I don't disagree with anything stated, however if things are out of scope we should provide best practice on how vs. gap analysis.
15:54:14 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Question becomes is that more  on a community group path.
15:54:29 <ChrisLoiselle> q+
15:55:04 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: The working statement and group was crafted very specifically.
15:55:19 <mitch117> q+
15:55:21 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: We can try, however have to come up with that quickly.
15:55:30 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
15:55:58 <maryjom> ack ChrisLoiselle
15:57:12 <maryjom> ack mitch
15:58:04 <ChrisLoiselle> Mitch : Gap analysis may be beneficial. We'd need to do that for all, not just phase 2. Listing questions we'd like to solve is a tall ask.
15:58:18 <ChrisLoiselle> q+
15:58:51 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: I wanted to define a set of work that would review that.
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15:59:09 <PhilDay> present+
15:59:11 <ChrisLoiselle> Mitch: Would a gap analysis exercise fit in to our charter or work ?
15:59:12 <maryjom> ack ChrisLoiselle
16:00:01 <lbm> Just would add yes, to make notes of Gaps for future reference. Synthesis later if there is interest.
16:00:06 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: On work statement changes, please do review it as we will leave open for review.
16:00:30 <ChrisLoiselle> q?
16:01:17 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: Explainer was set off of AGWG W3C Explainer for WCAG 3
16:01:25 <ChrisLoiselle> We are not giving guidance for policy makers
16:01:59 <ChrisLoiselle> Mary Jo: I have started a phase 2 milestones and can be shared via email.
16:02:36 <ChrisLoiselle> We need to get our work approved for AGWG so we can then start in on it.
16:02:45 <ChrisLoiselle> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-wcag2ict-minutes.html ChrisLoiselle
16:03:39 <maryjom> zakim, end meeting
16:03:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been maryjom, ChrisLoiselle, bruce_bailey, shadi, PhilDay, lbm, ShawnT, mitch, Daniel
16:03:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:03:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
16:03:49 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:03:49 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
16:03:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:03:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict