15:59:19 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:59:24 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-tt-irc 15:59:24 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:59:25 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 16:02:18 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/294 16:02:27 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/09/27-tt-minutes.html 16:02:30 scribe: nigel 16:02:33 Chair: Nigel 16:02:37 Regrets: Gary 16:03:02 cpn has joined #tt 16:03:17 Present: Chris, Andreas, Nigel 16:03:49 Present+ Mike, Pierre 16:04:32 Topic: This meeting 16:04:40 scribe+ cpn 16:04:52 Nigel: Welcome back everyone, it's been a little while since we met, last meeting was at TPAC! 16:05:18 Present+ Cyril 16:06:35 ... Topics for today, DAPT CfC, IMSC 1.3, the TTML banner, and planning for our next charter, as the current one expires in April 16:06:44 ... Anything else, or points to raise within those? 16:06:53 (nothing) 16:07:06 Topic: DAPT 16:07:35 Nigel: Following TPAC, I sent a CfC on October 10 to request transition to CR 16:07:59 ... There wasn't a single document ready for review, we had some PRs for review 16:08:04 atai has joined #tt 16:08:14 ... Didn't get responses, but we did get responses to the PRs 16:08:32 ... Our approach with PRs is not to merge unless there's at least one approval 16:08:51 ... I don't think we have consensus yet 16:09:15 ... Another thing, Atsushi noticed we've made some significant changes since we last requested horizontal review 16:09:48 ... You made a list of changes, and asked i18n for a delta review. Is that all needed to do? 16:10:45 Atsushi: Fuqiao will review the delta. Now Simone has joined as Security lead, I hope he'll look at the Security considerations section 16:11:13 Nigel: Do we have to wait for their responses before requsting transition? 16:11:31 Atsushi: I hope they'll get back to us in 1 or 2 weeks. I don't think we need to wait for long 16:12:11 Nigel: When PLH said we didn't need to wait for Security review, is that still true? 16:12:24 Atsushi: I suggest waiting for a couple of weeks 16:12:50 Nigel: Any other questions on this? 16:12:52 (nothing) 16:13:07 Nigel: I suggest looking at the open PRs and decide what to do 16:13:26 ... We've closed 14 issues and merged 22 PRs during and since TPAC 16:13:47 ... Not ready to declare consensus. I'm hoping to get more clarity 16:14:15 Subtopic: Make "Using computed attribute values" normative w3c/dapt#256 16:14:23 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/256 16:14:51 Nigel: Andreas approved this PR. Cyril may be requesting changes 16:15:17 ... Your comment wasn't about a change introduced in the PR, about using computed attribute values 16:16:16 ... In section 6.4, there's a paragraph about computing times to div elements 16:17:15 ... I tried another rewrite. What to do? 16:17:35 Cyril: Your rewrite looks good 16:18:27 SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to commit proposed change and @cconcolato to approve before merge 16:18:49 Nigel: Any other comments on this? 16:18:52 (nothing) 16:19:09 Subtopic: Check feature dispositions w3c/dapt#265 16:19:14 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/265 16:19:39 Nigel: This was in response to an issue from Andreas. I think I fixed the inconsistency 16:20:23 Andreas: I had a brief look, but haven't given feedback or approval yet 16:20:58 Nigel: It's a substantive change, it would need checking. Would someone like to volunteer to do that? 16:21:19 ... I'm not comfortable merging it directly, because of the potential impacts 16:22:01 ... We need to check the profile documents and the dispositions match correctly 16:22:18 Andreas: I can do it but not in the next days 16:22:33 SUMMARY: Awaiting approval review 16:22:49 Subtopic: Prepare for CRS w3c/dapt#269 16:22:54 github: https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/269 16:23:40 Nigel: I used the draft PR feature for this, similar to how Pierre does it with IMSC 16:24:25 ... Once everything is merged, I'll rebase this, and that will be the bases for the CRS 16:25:28 ... No action needed. It changes the spec status, refers to implementation report, etc. End date says 1 January for Proposed Recommendation, may need to adjust 16:26:09 ... CR exit criteria us almost the same wording as for IMSC 16:26:29 ... I cross-checked the wording against the charter. AFAICT it's compatible with that 16:26:59 ... Unless there are comments, I'll assume it's ok 16:27:01 (nothing) 16:27:27 ... Please LMK if anyone should be added to Acknowledgements 16:28:27 SUMMARY: Rebase as needed and use as the basis of the CRS transition request 16:28:41 Topic: IMSC 16:29:11 Nigel: We're building momentum towards working on IMSC 1.3. Atsushi has been in touch with ARIB? 16:29:30 Atsushi: There's an email conversation 16:29:42 Nigel: It seems positive 16:30:03 ... I hope we can include the Japanese market's requirements in IMSC 1.3 and get confirmation from them 16:30:38 Pierre: Thank you for following up with ARIB. It would potentially impact the scope of the revision, depending on where we end up 16:30:49 ... Looking forward to what they have to say 16:31:42 Atsushi: I'll continue keeping in touch with them 16:32:08 Topic: TTML2 - outdated banner 16:32:38 Nigel: We discussed at TPAC, and came up with a conclusion, Atsushi shared by email 16:32:47 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2024Oct/0000.html (Member only) member email proposal by Atsushi 16:33:14 Atsushi: If that draft text is fine for you all, I'll send it to the system to consider 16:33:24 s/system/sys-team/ 16:34:04 Nigel: Seems fine. When there's a new version of a Rec, we point forwards to the latest version of the work in progress 16:34:14 ... Any thoughts, or reasons not to proceed? 16:34:21 (nothing) 16:34:33 Nigel: Atsushi, please go ahead 16:34:46 Topic: Charter 2025 16:34:57 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/04/timed-text-wg-charter.html Current TTWG Charter 16:35:12 Nigel: Our current charter ends on 7 April 2025 16:35:34 ... My proposal is not to change it, apart from updating the end data 16:35:43 ... Want to ensure DAPT and IMSC 1.3 are both in scope 16:36:14 ... I'd argue they're already in scope of the current wording, but we can make it explicit 16:36:42 ... Could move IMSC HRM to the Maintenance section 16:37:08 Pierre: There may be style features, but that's really maintenance 16:37:28 ... We'll get to a state where everything is in maintenance 16:37:38 Nigel: That'd be a good state to be in 16:38:14 Nigel: Specific proposal is to remove IMSC HRM from that list and add DAPT and IMSC 1.3 16:39:34 ... That means in the New Normative Specifications section, under Profiles of TTML2, the second paragraph is an example application (DAPT). So reword to make it a historical example, or we could delete that paragraph 16:39:58 ... I want to make as few changes as possible 16:40:13 ... I assume we'll be good to set an end date of +2 years 16:40:33 Nigel: If you have other suggestions or changes, please let me know 16:40:44 ... We could list ARIB in section 4.2 16:41:33 ... Action is on the chairs (?) to create a new draft. We might need updates for the latest charter template 16:41:51 Atsushi: We should align to the template first 16:42:07 Nigel: That creates change without adding value, so would prefer not to do that 16:42:45 Atsushi: I agree on aligning to the template after we make the updates. I'd work in the template aligning part 16:42:50 s/in/on/ 16:43:21 Pierre: Do we need to do anything to let us use new publishing mechanisms, e.g., for evergreen specs? 16:43:47 Nigel: I don't think that requires charter changes. The details for that are in the Process 16:44:06 ... Additionally, WebVTT already has that pattern, so I think we're good 16:44:53 Pierre: There was some traffic about a text track community group, and potentially closing it? Should we add text to the charter about moving things here? 16:45:38 Atsushi: To change the charter for streamlining publication, if we want to keep the Rec track document in CR, we may need to add something, but if we intent to take it to Rec we don't need to change anything 16:46:27 ... Also, there's ongoing work to close inactive CGs, since there's no defined chartered period for CGs, and many CGs are inactive. Periodically there's a search done and suggestion to close inactive groups 16:47:11 ... A CG working with us on WebVTT. I discussed with Nigel and Gary about this being a joint deliverable and moving it to TTWG, but not finished yet 16:48:10 ... Also the Audio CG (exact name?), things brought to TTWG on 6078/708. If there's no other reason to keep the CG open, we may need to discuss 16:48:22 -> https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/texttracks/ Text Tracks CG 16:48:37 -> https://www.w3.org/community/texttracks/ Text Track CG Home Page 16:48:39 ... TTWG is already handling issues relating to 608/708 parameters, I believe we can the CG is no longer required from our side 16:48:46 s/Tracks CG/Track CG 16:49:05 ... On the charter front, WebVTT is in scope, so I don't think we need specific ? for that 16:49:15 s/Text Track CG/Web Media Text Tracks Community Group/g 16:50:28 Nigel: The only document that I can't see who owns it is the TTML to WebVTT mapping document. It's listed under Web Media Text Tracks CG but not as a TTWG Note 16:50:40 -> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/timed-text/publications/ TTWG Publications (omits the TTML to WebVTT mapping document) 16:51:12 ... That's the only one I think is missing. 16:51:21 ... The last message in the CG was in Feb 2015 16:52:20 Pierre: The only deliverable I'm aware of is that Note, and that was transferred to TTWG 16:52:39 ... Someone could argue to keep the CG open, but with that added we're good from TTWG's standpoint 16:52:54 Nigel: The charter doesn't need to be specific about non-normative documents 16:53:56 ... Atsushi mentioned something about perpetual CR. I'd object to a suggestion to do that. It's the opposite of what we should be doing at W3C 16:54:48 ... With Web Media Text Tracks Community Group, I think we're saying there are no deliverables we're waiting for from them. We have everything we need. 16:55:17 ... Happy for work to happen in CGs, but it should be the CG Chair's call to confirm that's OK 16:55:54 -> https://github.com/w3c/ttml-webvtt-mapping/ ttml-webvtt-mapping repo 16:55:59 Pierre: Once we've found the Note, add to the thread that the documents have a home in TTWG. Could help people decide 16:57:12 ... Atsushi, would you mind checking the document is correctly associated with TTWG? 16:57:24 Atsushi: I believe we have an issue about that 16:57:42 atai has joined #tt 16:57:50 ... In the WebVTT, I believe 16:58:15 Nigel: It's not one of our TTWG issues 16:58:51 ... There's an issue in WebVTT, from 2021 (webvtt#501), but that's not about the mapping document 16:59:11 Atsushi: So we'd need to add another one 16:59:37 Topic: Next meeting 17:00:05 Nigel: In 2 weeks time. I cancelled the scheduled call for 2 Jan. We have a few meetings before end of year 17:00:28 ... If the meeting timing causes any difficulty, let me know 17:00:40 [adjourned] 17:00:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:00:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-tt-minutes.html cpn 17:12:31 present+ Atsushi 17:13:24 s/delta review. Is that all needed to do?/delta review. Is that all we need to do? 17:14:23 s/that will be the bases for the CRS/that will be the basis for the CRS 17:15:03 s/... Please LMK/Nigel: Please LMK 17:15:52 s/updating the end data/updating the end date 17:16:38 s/alignong/aligning 17:17:04 s/I don't think that requires charter changes/Good question. I don't think that requires charter changes 17:17:28 s/if we intent to take it to Rec/if we intend to take it to Rec 17:18:00 s/6078/608 17:19:48 s/In 2 weeks/Our next call is in 2 weeks 17:20:14 s/If the meeting/I added new meetings into February 2025. If the meeting 17:20:18 rrsagent, make minutes 17:20:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:21:25 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 17:21:29 zakim, end meeting 17:21:29 As of this point the attendees have been Chris, Andreas, Nigel, Mike, Pierre, Cyril, Atsushi 17:21:31 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 17:21:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-tt-minutes.html Zakim 17:21:38 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 17:21:39 Zakim has left #tt 17:21:49 rrsagent, excuse us 17:21:49 I see no action items