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16:08:57 <pfps> present+
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17:00:28 <pfps> present+
17:00:32 <AndyS> AndyS has changed the topic to: RDF Star WG : 2024-11-07 : agenda -- https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/348e384e-2c0d-4c88-bb5c-5ddddf93ef4d/20241107T120000/
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17:01:19 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:01:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
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17:01:29 <ora> present+
17:01:29 <ora> chair+
17:01:29 <olaf> present+
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17:01:53 <pchampin> present+
17:02:00 <william_vw> present+
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17:02:14 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF Star WG: 2024-11-07 agenda -- https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/348e384e-2c0d-4c88-bb5c-5ddddf93ef4d/20241107T120000/
17:02:16 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:02:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:02:24 <TallTed> present+
17:02:24 <TallTed> agenda?
17:02:24 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/348e384e-2c0d-4c88-bb5c-5ddddf93ef4d/20241107T120000/
17:02:24 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:02:24 <eBremer> present+
17:02:24 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/31-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:02:24 <agendabot> agenda+ Meeting next week: ISWC
17:02:24 <agendabot> agenda+ Prioritization of next week's topics -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6
17:02:25 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
17:02:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
17:02:31 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
17:02:33 <Tpt> present+
17:02:34 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
17:02:44 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/01-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:02:46 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/08-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:03:02 <pchampin> meeting: RDF-star WG meeting
17:03:32 <gkellogg> regrets+ ktk
17:03:41 <pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/01-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:03:46 <pfps> look fine to me
17:03:56 <pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/14-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:04:07 <doerthe> ora: we go through the minutes of the last two meeting. Any observations?
17:04:10 <ora> q?
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17:04:24 <Souri> present+
17:04:29 <AndyS> LGTM
17:04:54 <ora> PROPOSAL: Accept minutes of 2024-10-24
17:04:55 <pfps> +1
17:04:56 <niklasl> +1
17:04:58 <ora> +1
17:04:59 <Dominik_T> +1
17:05:01 <Souri> +1
17:05:02 <doerthe> +1
17:05:02 <TallTed> +1
17:05:03 <AndyS> +1
17:05:04 <gkellogg> +1
17:05:04 <gtw> +1
17:05:06 <tl> +1
17:05:08 <eBremer> +1
17:05:14 <william_vw> +1
17:05:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:05:26 <olaf> +1
17:05:26 <AZ3> +1
17:05:26 <pchampin> +1
17:05:26 <enrico> +1
17:05:27 <Tpt> +1
17:05:31 <james> +1
17:05:33 <ora> RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of 2024-10-24
17:05:46 <ora> PROPOSAL: Accept minutes of 2024-10-31
17:05:48 <pfps> +1
17:05:52 <ora> 0
17:05:54 <niklasl> +1
17:05:55 <Tpt> +1
17:05:55 <enrico> +1
17:05:56 <olaf> +1
17:05:58 <william_vw> +1
17:05:59 <gkellogg> +1
17:05:59 <TallTed> +1
17:06:01 <doerthe> 0
17:06:03 <Dominik_T> +1
17:06:07 <tl> +1
17:06:08 <james> +1
17:06:09 <pchampin> 0
17:06:10 <AndyS> +1
17:06:13 <gtw> +1
17:06:29 <AZ3> +1
17:06:29 <eBremer> +1
17:06:39 <ora> RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of 2024-10-31
17:07:05 <gkellogg> zakim, next item
17:07:05 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/31-rdf-star-minutes.html --
17:07:09 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
17:07:17 <gkellogg> zakim, close item 1
17:07:17 <Zakim> agendum 1, Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/24-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/10/31-rdf-star-minutes.html,
17:07:20 <Zakim> ... closed
17:07:20 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:07:20 <Zakim> 2. Meeting next week: ISWC [from agendabot]
17:07:22 <gkellogg> zakim, next item
17:07:22 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Meeting next week: ISWC -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:07:39 <AZ3> AZ3 has left #rdf-star
17:07:40 <pfps> nice save
17:07:44 <doerthe> ora: are you attending ISWC, should we have a meeting?
17:07:57 <pfps> +1 to having a meeting
17:08:03 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
17:08:09 <AZ> present+
17:08:11 <pchampin> q+
17:08:19 <doerthe> ora: I will be absent, but ktk could share
17:08:20 <ora> ack pchampin
17:08:34 <doerthe> ... so we have a meeting
17:09:04 <doerthe> pchampin: could you report to the group after attending ISWC?
17:09:22 <pfps> ora: can your slides be shared with the group?
17:09:37 <AndyS> s/ktk could share/ktk could chair/
17:09:41 <doerthe> ora: I will have RDF-star as part of my keynote, I will report
17:09:45 <pfps> yeah, yeah
17:10:17 <doerthe> ora: I can share the slides when they are ready and the talk will be recorded
17:10:28 <gkellogg> zakim, next item
17:10:28 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Prioritization of next week's topics -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:10:59 <TallTed> RRSAgent, pointer?
17:10:59 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-irc#T17-10-59
17:11:14 <doerthe> gkellogg: did you finish item 3?
17:11:39 <doerthe> ora: working on that. chairs are still working out SPARQL exists
17:12:07 <doerthe> ora: not sure whether this can be discussed, pa?
17:12:42 <doerthe> pchampin: we have to sort out wether is is part of the charter
17:13:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:14:20 <doerthe> james: I am against the change of the charter
17:15:32 <pfps> q+ to ask whether wg members actually have a say in the charter
17:16:05 <ora> ack pfps
17:16:05 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask whether wg members actually have a say in the charter
17:16:08 <doerthe> pchampin: the question is whether that addresses an editorial errata or not, most likely a substantial errata
17:16:44 <doerthe> .. but that is not strictly not in the charter
17:16:53 <TallTed> q+
17:17:20 <doerthe> pfps: are there formal objections to charters possible?
17:17:45 <doerthe> pchampin: technically yes
17:17:50 <ora> ack TallTed
17:18:16 <AndyS> q+
17:18:44 <doerthe> pchampin: there was a vote about our new charter, it is approved. But some people suggested to go further. That is now the discussion
17:19:31 <doerthe> TallTed:  formal objections are not possible  for votes on charters
17:19:55 <doerthe> .. but that is something we do not need to discuss within our group
17:20:15 <tl> s/"objections"/"formal objections"
17:20:30 <doerthe> ora: can we get the team's view on that?
17:22:19 <ora> ack AndyS
17:22:19 <doerthe> pchampin: I already did. Bottomline: either we continue with the new charter which was voted on or
17:23:28 <doerthe> AndyS: Apache voted in favour of the new charter including the changes
17:23:53 <doerthe> ... the editorial changes, maybe a missunderstanding?
17:24:19 <doerthe> ora: we will pick that up and clarify under which charter we continue
17:25:13 <doerthe> ora: to go back to the issues, SPARQL exists is on hold
17:25:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:25:48 <doerthe> .. any suggestions which issues we want to discuss next week?
17:26:02 <TallTed> s/sort out wether/sort out whether/
17:26:13 <enrico> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/RDF-star-%22alternative-baseline%22
17:26:34 <doerthe> enrico: in the Semantic Task Force we discussed that we should take a position on our "alternative baseline", available at: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/RDF-star-%22alternative-baseline%22
17:27:01 <doerthe> ora: can we make that the first thing to discuss next week? any objections?
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17:27:55 <doerthe> ora: homework for everybody, read the updated baseline proposal
17:27:56 <olaf> present+
17:28:50 <doerthe> ora: then this will be one of the topics we do next week
17:29:04 <doerthe> ... any other suggestions?
17:29:29 <pfps> q+ to say it is time to finish ill-typed literal
17:29:32 <doerthe> AndyS: maybe we should discuss ill-typed literals?
17:29:36 <ora> ack pfps
17:29:36 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say it is time to finish ill-typed literal
17:29:53 <doerthe> ora: let's discuss then
17:30:28 <doerthe> pfps: I would like to have a resolution on that topic, because we keep discussing that topic
17:30:39 <doerthe> .. I will prepare a proposal
17:31:33 <doerthe> ora: if possible, could you send it beforehand? just to keep the discussion short
17:31:48 <tl> q+
17:31:57 <ora> ack tl
17:31:59 <doerthe> ora: should we discuss rdfs:states as third topic
17:32:04 <gkellogg> q+
17:32:16 <doerthe> tl: I expect us to not get there in time.
17:32:57 <pfps> q+ to plead for brevity
17:33:18 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:33:22 <doerthe> .. my idea was to introduce it for the annotation syntax. There was not majority for it. There is also the question whether we want such a thing in general
17:34:05 <pfps> +1 to considering the json in the list
17:34:05 <pchampin> q+
17:34:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:34:13 <ora> ack pfps
17:34:13 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to plead for brevity
17:34:21 <doerthe> gkellogg: regarding RDF-Json issue, we could close it
17:34:30 <TallTed> s/SPARQL exists is on hold/SPARQL EXISTS is on hold/
17:34:56 <enrico> I beieve that tl asks for a vote on https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/Extending-the-baseline-with-%22asserted%22-stuff
17:35:03 <doerthe> pfps: I would like to emphasize that we should try to go for more proposals and less discussion
17:35:21 <doerthe> .. if people want to get things changed, they should write proposals
17:35:29 <doerthe> .. because then we can vote
17:35:36 <pchampin> q-
17:36:05 <doerthe> ora: we now have topics, of course we can discuss more
17:36:45 <doerthe> ... anything else we should move forward?
17:37:44 <gkellogg> zakim, next item
17:37:44 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:38:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:38:24 <doerthe> ora: anything on your side pchampin?
17:38:52 <TallTed> s/RDF-Json issue/rdf:JSON issue/
17:38:58 <tl> s/such a thing in general/a property rdfs:states without supporting syntactic sugar
17:38:58 <doerthe> pchampin: not sure how our current position is on the un-star mapping, if we want it, I can work on it
17:39:45 <doerthe> ora: we will have a discussion what we do on that
17:40:21 <TallTed> q+
17:40:31 <ora> ack TallTed
17:40:59 <gkellogg> q+
17:41:04 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:41:17 <pchampin> q+
17:41:27 <doerthe> pchampin: problem with issue ? is that we only have a mailing list as contact
17:41:28 <ora> ack pchampin
17:42:02 <doerthe> TallTed: is the mailing list even maintained afterwards?
17:42:04 <AndyS> q+
17:42:30 <ora> ack AndyS
17:42:34 <doerthe> (I need help scribing on that one, please)
17:44:47 <doerthe> ora: I suggest we use the mailing list address for now and pchampin could further follow up
17:44:53 <doerthe> :)
17:45:21 <gtw> last email to that list was in February of this year.
17:45:24 <gkellogg> q+
17:45:30 <TallTed> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/ shows that one still lives
17:45:33 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:45:34 <doerthe> pchampin: I will
17:46:17 <TallTed> tho the lack of response to https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2024Feb/0000.html keeps its utility in question
17:46:32 <doerthe> gkellogg: we discussed changing our name, we decided before that we do that after finishing the work, but I think it could be too late
17:47:15 <doerthe> ora: I wonder whether we could establish a more permanent e-mail address like rdf-issues or similar
17:48:12 <gkellogg> q+
17:48:16 <ora> ack gkellogg
17:48:47 <doerthe> gkellogg: maybe we can merge the three open media type updates, one is causing a respec problem
17:49:27 <doerthe> ... this has no error message, we should wait till this is solved
17:50:03 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 5
17:50:03 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:50:03 <doerthe> ... I would wait till next week to wait for respec
17:50:32 <doerthe> ora: section for definition of triple terms, what is the state AndyS?
17:51:41 <doerthe> AndyS: This is about section order, content doesn't  change, some extra about triple terms
17:51:54 <doerthe> ora: can we merge? no objection, we do
17:52:51 <doerthe> AndyS: we additionally have a request for symmetric RDF, which means that we allow all terms in subject position we allow in object position, that has not much practical consequences
17:53:05 <doerthe> ora: objections to merge? no
17:53:48 <doerthe> AndyS: other merge is moving ?? to semantics
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17:54:59 <Dominik_T> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:55:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html Dominik_T
17:55:45 <gtw> sorry for the audio issues. hoping for some clarification on expected behavior of invalid codepoint escapes.
17:56:09 <gtw> there's the bigger issue Gregg is discussing on difference between Turtle and SPARQL, but I think fixing that would be a breaking change we probably can't(?) make.
17:57:50 <gtw> I think splitting is OK, but orthogonal to the discussion on expected behavior of error cases.
17:57:53 <TallTed> should get a "push to 2.0" or similar
17:58:50 <doerthe> AndyS: I suggest to split (issue fill in) into two
17:58:58 <TallTed> *maybe* could be a switchable thing? or a "compliance with the 1.x specs requires this security hole be open; we hope it will be closed/closable for 2.x specs"
17:59:26 <gtw> TallTed: yes, bug again, orthogonal issue to what I was aiming for with this PR.
17:59:30 <doerthe> enrico: suggestion for STF, should we go through the baseline together?
17:59:51 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:59:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
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