15:05:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
15:05:09 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-irc
15:05:11 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
15:05:14 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
15:12:38 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
15:13:26 <kaz> chair: Ege
15:13:40 <luca_barbato6> luca_barbato6 has joined #wot-td
15:13:59 <EgeKorkan> scribenick: Ege
15:14:01 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Josh_Thomas, Klaus_Hartke, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:14:04 <EgeKorkan> scribenick: EgeKorkan
15:14:12 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:14:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:14:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:14:25 <EgeKorkan> topic: Minutes
15:14:34 <EgeKorkan> https://www.w3.org/2024/10/30-wot-td-minutes.html
15:14:54 <jthomas> jthomas has joined #wot-td
15:15:31 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#November_6-7%2C_2024
15:15:32 <EgeKorkan> ek: any concerns?
15:15:40 <EgeKorkan> ... hearing none, minutes are approved
15:15:49 <EgeKorkan> topic: Quick Schedule
15:16:26 <EgeKorkan> ek: first bacnet, and then initial conenction. then registry if time left
15:17:08 <EgeKorkan> topic: BACnet
15:17:56 <EgeKorkan> subtopic: PR 381
15:18:12 <kaz> s/bacnet/BACnet/
15:19:14 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/381 wot-binding-templates PR 381 - fix: add day of week to BACnet protocol binding's Date and DateTime types
15:19:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:19:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:19:38 <EgeKorkan> ek: Bacnet datetime extends ISO 8601
15:19:53 <kaz> q+
15:20:08 <kaz> q-
15:20:33 <EgeKorkan> ... so Dogan has adapted the regex
15:20:39 <cris> cris has joined #wot-td
15:20:43 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Jan_Romann
15:20:49 <kaz> scribenick: cris
15:20:59 <cris> ege: klaus do you want to summirize your contribution?
15:21:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:21:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:21:20 <kaz> present+ Mahda_Noura
15:21:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:21:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:21:29 <cris> klaus: we need a way to express the intervals when clients can do a certain action
15:21:54 <cris> ... the solution that I'm proposing is to re-use part of ISO8601
15:21:59 <cris> ... with some minor extensions
15:23:06 <cris> ... however, we should explain this choice better in the future
15:24:00 <cris> ege: I think this feature might be applied to other use cases too
15:24:03 <mjk> q?
15:24:08 <mjk> q+
15:24:08 <cris> ... for now we can limit this to bacnet
15:24:28 <cris> mjk: chages are fine
15:24:35 <mjk> ack mjk
15:24:39 <cris> s/chages/changes/
15:24:53 <cris> subtopic: PR 379
15:24:59 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
15:24:59 <kaz> i|we need a way|-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 ISO 8601 (Wikipedia)|
15:25:15 <cris> ege: this is interesting for everyone not just bacnet
15:25:41 <kaz> i|this is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/379 wot-binding-templates PR 379 - BACnet support for events|
15:25:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:25:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:26:06 <kaz> s/Bacnet/BACnet/
15:26:12 <cris> ... actions are required to correctly model events in BACnet
15:26:51 <cris> ... the actions are application logic relevant not low level protocol
15:27:23 <cris> ... in practice we have a sort of state machine here
15:28:07 <cris> q+
15:29:12 <cris> ... the example td cannot be easily adapted to other protocols
15:30:26 <cris> ... this example shows that we have also events as manageable afforndaces
15:30:58 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:34:03 <luca_barbato> q+
15:35:08 <cris> cris: ok with the concerns, but I'm not sure we should display this workaround in the specification
15:38:05 <cris> klaus: Event word is confusing, in BACnet the right word is Alarm
15:38:22 <cris> ... it is a long running process
15:38:39 <cris> ... and it requires somebody (from the application level) to acknowledge it.
15:39:52 <cris> ... a generic TD consumer does not know about this little protocol
15:40:01 <cris> ... this is a fundamental question about WoT
15:40:36 <cris> ... some people say that this consumer might be particularly aware about the low level protocol
15:40:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:41:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:41:07 <kaz> q?
15:41:31 <cris> ... we could make this state machine writable in a standard way
15:41:48 <cris> ... we need a short term solution for now
15:42:08 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:42:13 <cris> ack c
15:42:36 <cris> q+
15:43:08 <cris> luca: this is very protocol specific and it is perfectly fine
15:43:18 <cris> ... I'm ok for the proposed solution for BACnet
15:44:24 <mjk> q+
15:45:24 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:45:25 <cris> ... for the future it would be interesting to further explorer
15:45:28 <luca_barbato> ack l
15:46:10 <cris> ege: there might be interesting cases on other bindings
15:46:48 <cris> klaus: alarms might not BACnet specific
15:47:03 <cris> luca: some protocol do have the concept of acknowledgment
15:47:31 <cris> klaus: in HTTP you could poll a resource to get an alarm
15:47:50 <cris> luca: which is the layer that have this kind of interaction
15:48:14 <cris> ege: in this specific case is more application level
15:48:20 <cris> luca: to me it is just a detail
15:48:40 <cris> ... if you want to translate protocol to protocol
15:48:55 <cris> ... you still need a markup
15:50:19 <cris> ... I agree it is not just something specific to BACnet
15:51:35 <cris> ... profile could deal with specific constraint of the protocol
15:52:27 <cris> ... we can try even ensuring that the compatible client won't do wrongdoings.
15:53:27 <cris> ... we also have the problem this kind of behaviours might change a lot from different use cases
15:53:33 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:53:39 <cris> ege: we will get there when we have more examples
15:54:11 <EgeKorkan> q?
15:54:43 <cris> luca: this is an event that need to trigger an action
15:55:00 <cris> ... but the combinations might be a lot
15:55:52 <cris> ... getting a container to have some sort relationship
15:55:56 <cris> ... it is better than ad hoc solutions
15:57:49 <luca_barbato> q+
15:58:52 <cris> cris: ok to publish this, however I would add similar examples to http binding for the managiable actions use case or pagination
15:59:15 <cris> ... plus we could consider to extend the affordances and add alarm as an affordance type
16:00:07 <luca_barbato> s/this is an event that need to trigger an action/this is an event that need to trigger an action, we have the situation in which an action can be canceled through another action or a property may trigger events depending on its state, e.g. turning on an oven triggers events about cooking status/
16:00:35 <cris> mjk: we are not extending events or actions, but rather we are creating an application state machine
16:00:46 <cris> ... thanks for bringing this up
16:00:48 <cris> ack mjk
16:00:48 <EgeKorkan> ack m
16:00:51 <EgeKorkan> ack c
16:00:53 <cris> ack c
16:01:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:01:30 <cris> luca: we could try to write an example of a possible markup to bind together some affordances... but when ? we still have to close other topics
16:01:34 <cris> ... I would first close that
16:01:46 <cris> s/that/the connection feature/
16:01:49 <cris> ege: I agree
16:01:52 <cris> cris: +1
16:02:28 <cris> ege: I am not sure about the proposed solutions but for sure this is something we could go on
16:02:41 <kaz> q+
16:02:42 <cris> s/go/work/
16:02:45 <cris> ack l
16:03:27 <cris> klaus: how BACnet consumer can use this example?
16:06:12 <cris> ege: for me it can search inside forms you have bacnet specific key words
16:06:34 <cris> mjk: can we introduce a BACnet vocabulary
16:06:45 <kaz> q?
16:07:04 <cris> s/vocabulary/vocabulary event/
16:07:23 <cris> s/vocabulary event/vocabulary term/
16:07:27 <cris> cris: I agree
16:08:15 <cris> kaz: I would like to suggest to clarify these points as Editor Notes
16:08:21 <kaz> q-
16:10:00 <cris> [adjourned]
16:10:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:10:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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