14:09:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
14:09:26 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-irc
14:09:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:09:27 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
14:09:50 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
14:09:57 <janina> Date: 06 Nov 2024
14:10:02 <janina> Chair: Janina
14:10:05 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
14:10:05 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2024 Planning
14:10:05 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
14:10:05 <janina> agenda+ [New Charters Review](https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22)
14:10:08 <janina> agenda+ [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues)
14:10:10 <janina> agenda+ Actions check-in
14:10:13 <janina> agenda+ Other business
14:10:15 <janina> agenda+ Be done
14:11:37 <janina>  regrets: Jennifer_Strickland, Neha_Manik_Jadhav
14:27:15 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
14:27:31 <matatk> agenda?
14:27:51 <matatk> zakim, drop item 2
14:27:51 <Zakim> agendum 2, TPAC 2024 Planning, dropped
14:27:54 <matatk> agenda?
14:28:08 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:28:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:58:28 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel has joined #apa
14:59:19 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #apa
14:59:27 <Fazio> present+
14:59:32 <matatk> presetn+
14:59:32 <janina> present+
14:59:40 <matatk> present+
15:00:53 <Roy_Ruoxi> present+
15:00:55 <janina> Link to my recital: https://youtube.com/live/jz8H8f_KGNQ
15:01:02 <gautierchomel> present+
15:01:30 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:02:17 <SteveF> SteveF has joined #apa
15:02:26 <Dr_Keith> Dr_Keith has joined #apa
15:02:42 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
15:02:54 <SteveF> note: I will only be here for 15 mins as I have a drs appointment
15:02:59 <PaulG> present+
15:03:25 <Dr_Keith> present+
15:05:09 <janina> present+
15:05:17 <SteveF> present+
15:05:45 <gautierchomel> scribe+ gautierchomel
15:06:01 <janina> zakim,k next item
15:06:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'k next item', janina
15:06:09 <janina> zakim, next item
15:06:09 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
15:06:48 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
15:07:11 <Fredrik> present+
15:07:22 <janina> zakim, next item
15:07:22 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
15:07:22 <gautierchomel> janina: no anouncement
15:07:34 <gautierchomel> zakim, next item
15:07:34 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, gautierchomel
15:08:35 <gautierchomel> matatk: agendum 2 was dropped, so nothing missing here.
15:10:16 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:10:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:10:29 <gautierchomel> janina: there is a wide review to do about maturity model.
15:12:43 <gautierchomel> janina: this is a major achievement, we really need people review. It's about how we track accessibility and maturation, over time.
15:12:57 <gautierchomel> Zakim, next item
15:12:57 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- [New Charters Review](https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22) -- taken up [from janina]
15:13:08 <Roy_Ruoxi> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/481
15:14:10 <gautierchomel> Roy_Ruoxi: we have a new charter proposal for Publishing, ready for review.
15:15:15 <gautierchomel> janina: we need more time, we're not ready, we have to take the time to read all that.
15:16:07 <gautierchomel> matatk: i see no blockers here.
15:16:43 <gautierchomel> janina: it's not epub 4, only enhancements on epub 3, probably 3.4 so we should not block the review.
15:17:44 <matatk> regrets+ Mike_Beganyi
15:17:49 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:17:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:17:56 <gautierchomel> janina: we have our answer, you can close the issue Roy.
15:18:11 <SteveF> i gotta go, see you next week
15:18:16 <gautierchomel> zakim, next item
15:18:16 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- [CSS Update (Paul)](https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
15:18:36 <matatk> agenda?
15:19:19 <janina> q?
15:19:57 <matatk> subtopic: EXIF data, attribute, and other approaches
15:20:08 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4165
15:20:14 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:20:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:20:22 <gautierchomel> PaulG: main discussion is about image orientation attribut, shall it work as it does or shall we change the behavior to allow shifts driven by user action
15:20:24 <janina> q?
15:22:39 <gautierchomel> PaulG: it's an implementation problem as this information usually comes late and the reflow is done. Implementers are looking for predictability.
15:22:47 <janina> q?
15:23:07 <gautierchomel> janina: it sounds our concerns are adressed.
15:23:24 <matatk> subtopic: reading-flow and related questions
15:23:24 <matatk> Some CSS questions, about reading-flow, but there are a few relevant sections of the docs...
15:23:24 <matatk> 3. Display Order: the order property - https://drafts.csswg.org/css-display-4/#order-property
15:23:24 <matatk> 3.1. Reordering and Accessibility - https://drafts.csswg.org/css-display-4/#order-accessibility
15:23:26 <matatk> 4. Reading Order: the reading-flow property - https://drafts.csswg.org/css-display-4/#reading-flow
15:23:36 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:23:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:25:04 <gautierchomel> matatk: I try to figure how those CSS properties fit to accessibility.
15:25:17 <PaulG> https://webkit.org/blog/15269/help-us-invent-masonry-layouts-for-css-grid-level-3/
15:25:22 <gautierchomel> PaulG: we had demos.
15:26:57 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #apa
15:27:34 <gautierchomel> PaulG: as things are moved around by the layout engine, visual order may not be important, but for keyboard users that's a way to follow an order. We offer flexibility for authors.
15:27:55 <janina> q?
15:30:02 <gautierchomel> matatk: all exemples i've seen, are about interaction and tab focus order. My question is would virtual cursor rearange reading order?
15:30:07 <janina> q+ to ask coord with epub a11y ordering
15:31:29 <gautierchomel> PaulG: there is still work to do for implementation, but RS agents are confidents they could if they receive the information. CSS does not manipulate the dom the same way.
15:32:19 <gautierchomel> matatk: so my understanding is that the spirit would be to make it as accessible as possible ut not implemen,ted yet
15:33:05 <gautierchomel> /ut/but/
15:34:59 <gautierchomel> PaulG: navigation is not affected by reading order, we'll have to add recommandations for implementation to cover as many use cases as possible.
15:35:36 <gautierchomel> s/ut/but/
15:36:11 <janina> q?
15:37:59 <gautierchomel> janina: some better labels could be found maybe.
15:38:51 <gautierchomel> janina: it's important to coordinate with order problems faced by epub.
15:38:53 <gautierchomel> q+
15:38:59 <matatk> ack janina
15:38:59 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask coord with epub a11y ordering
15:39:07 <matatk> scribe+
15:39:31 <gautierchomel> janina: because there user agents respond differently. We don't want different ways.
15:39:44 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:39:52 <janina> q?
15:39:59 <janina> ack g
15:40:29 <matatk> gautierchomel: The problem we have with fixed layout is that reading order may be shared between two different documents; haven't seen this in web pages. We need something like aria-flow but across documents.
15:40:47 <matatk> ... Not sure the use case exists in the web. Would be happy to know if someone has met this use case before.
15:40:56 <PaulG> I need to drop
15:41:55 <gautierchomel> matatk: back to css, i design an issue and we'll discuss next week.
15:42:19 <gautierchomel> zakim, next item
15:42:19 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Actions check-in -- taken up [from janina]
15:42:26 <janina> q?
15:43:22 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel: the issue about FXL reading order is there : https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2664
15:43:25 <matatk> subtopic: EPUB 3.3 changes review
15:43:26 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/92
15:44:14 <janina> regrets+ Mike_Begany
15:45:56 <gautierchomel> matatk: we found no issue here. Mike reviewed and was happy with the changes. As no one steps up for further look, we can proceed to closing this review.
15:47:49 <gautierchomel> matatk: a point about our review process, to be very transparent. We try to have a one voice to respond to external requests, after discussion in our calls. It's to make sure people don't misunderstand individual comments as official APA comment.
15:48:42 <matatk> subtopic: Vibration API review update
15:48:51 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/215
15:49:23 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/vibration/issues/50
15:51:56 <gautierchomel> This one is a good exemple of review process where we have APA internal discussion in our issue and move the comments to the Group Issue tracker when we have an agrement between us. So the group gets a clear request from us and can integrate in it's workflow.
15:52:27 <gautierchomel> Here we asked for language written as a MUST instead a SHOULD. They responded and I think it's a clear respons with documented discussion. We should not block.
15:52:41 <gautierchomel> zakim, next item
15:52:41 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Other business -- taken up [from janina]
15:54:58 <gautierchomel> zakim, next item
15:54:58 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Be done -- taken up [from janina]
15:55:42 <gautierchomel> zakim, end meeting
15:55:42 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Fazio, janina, matatk, Roy_Ruoxi, gautierchomel, PaulG, Dr_Keith, SteveF, Fredrik
15:55:44 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:55:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html Zakim
15:55:52 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, gautierchomel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:55:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #APA
15:57:11 <janina> s/old/new/
15:57:39 <gautierchomel> s/impleme,ted/implemented/
15:57:51 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/06-apa-minutes.html janina
16:00:18 <janina> rrsagent, bye
16:00:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items