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13:53:56 <TallTed> meeting: RDF Star WG Semantics TF
13:53:58 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d0cd306-0be8-4267-865a-6272cc8d9da4/20241101T100000/
13:53:59 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:53:59 <agendabot> agenda+ The Semantics Task Force discussed the basic semantics of triple terms at the meeting on 25 October 2024 and decided that it was a good idea to have a working group decision on which way to go in the very near future so that the significant changes can be made to RDF Semantics and RDF
13:54:00 <TallTed> present+
13:54:00 <agendabot> … Concepts to fully support triple terms and how they are to be used in RDF 1.2.
13:54:02 <TallTed> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:54:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/01-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
13:54:06 <TallTed> rrsagent, make logs public
13:54:54 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/10/31-rdf-star-minutes.html
13:54:56 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/11/07-rdf-star-minutes.html
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14:02:45 <TallTed> chair: enrico
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14:02:54 <william_vw> present+
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14:03:22 <enrico> present+
14:03:52 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:03:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/01-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
14:04:55 <tl> present+
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14:07:49 <TallTed> last week's -- https://www.w3.org/2024/10/25-rdf-star-minutes.html
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14:08:34 <tl> q+
14:08:43 <gkellogg> present+
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14:09:02 <Souri> present+
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14:11:37 <pfps> present+
14:12:09 <AndyS> present+
14:14:30 <Souri> I too feel that "association of a resource and a triple-term" is easier to explain than explaining "reification" -- it will also be better to avoid "occurrence" if we can.
14:15:22 <enrico> ack tl
14:15:27 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:15:31 <tl> tl
14:15:42 <tl> q+
14:16:16 <enrico> ack tl
14:17:56 <niklasl> q+
14:18:05 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:19:30 <niklasl> q+
14:20:03 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:21:19 <tl> q+
14:21:47 <doerthe> :(
14:22:08 <doerthe> I still dislike the object position restriction
14:22:14 <tl> doerthe there's still generalized RDF ;-)
14:22:23 <niklasl> There is.
14:23:57 <niklasl> "Triple terms can only be referred to once you've reified them." I do agree, but are we clear about that?
14:24:41 <niklasl> (I would not say it exactly like that though. What we refer to are reifiers of triples (triple terms)?)
14:25:29 <tl> q+
14:25:35 <enrico> ack tl
14:28:44 <william_vw> q+
14:29:29 <enrico> ack william_vw
14:30:04 <doerthe> not sure I like the reifier class, but yes, examples will help :9
14:30:30 <enrico> q+
14:31:00 <tl> :John rdf12:reifies <<( :s :p :o )>> ;
14:31:00 <tl>     a ex:Believe.
14:31:00 <tl> rdf12:reifies rdfs:domain rdf12:Reifier .
14:32:50 <pfps> See page 3 of https://arxiv.org/abs/1406.3399 and think of having two creators and sources.
14:33:22 <pfps> The problem is that triple terms are unique, as opposed to the standard RDF reification.
14:33:39 <pfps> That this problem occurs in the initial paper on RDF* is telling.
14:36:05 <tl> q?
14:36:09 <niklasl> q+
14:36:40 <enrico> ack enrico
14:39:18 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:42:40 <enrico> q+
14:43:51 <tl> q+
14:44:04 <enrico> ack enrico\
14:44:07 <tl> :John rdf12:reifies <<( :s :p :o )>> ;
14:44:07 <tl>     a ex:Believe.
14:44:07 <tl> rdf12:reifies a rdf12:TripleTermProperty .  # because it has a triple term in object position
14:44:07 <tl> rdf12:TripleTermProperty rdfs:domain rdf12:Reifier . # axiomatic triple
14:44:08 <tl> # This makes :John both a believe and a rdf12:Reifier.
14:44:08 <tl> # At least making :John a reifier should raise an alarm users.
14:44:08 <enrico> ack enrico
14:45:17 <pfps> q+
14:45:18 <enrico> ack tl
14:45:32 <enrico> ack pfps
14:45:54 <enrico> q+
14:46:00 <tl> :John ex:believs <<( :s :p :o )>> .
14:46:25 <doerthe> but that was the point, right? That we do not want John as a reifier and the class will show it
14:46:38 <enrico> :John :believes <<( :s :p :o )>> ; a ex:Belief.
14:46:41 <doerthe> (not sure I like that, but I get the point :) )
14:46:43 <niklasl> Yes, that's how I took it.
14:46:54 <niklasl> e.g. ex:Person owl:disjointWith rdf12:Reifier . ?
14:47:29 <enrico> :believes a :reificationproperty
14:47:38 <enrico> :jonh a rdf:reifier.
14:48:15 <niklasl> q+
14:48:23 <enrico> ack enrico
14:48:28 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:50:11 <tl> q+
14:50:42 <enrico> ack tl
14:51:08 <niklasl> q+
14:51:45 <enrico> ack niklasl
14:54:24 <AndyS> q+
14:54:29 <enrico> ack andys
14:55:12 <doerthe> I dislike well-formedness, so yes.
14:56:27 <doerthe> ah, OK, I just disliked well-formedness as mandatory
14:58:49 <doerthe> q+
15:00:06 <enrico> ack doerthe
15:02:14 <niklasl> q+
15:02:27 <enrico> ack niklasl
15:03:14 <AndyS> q+
15:03:35 <enrico> ack andys
15:04:47 <enrico> q?
15:06:59 <doerthe> let us know if you need review/help writing :)
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15:07:38 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:07:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/11/01-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
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