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12:55:18 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
12:55:30 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
12:55:42 <julierawe> Meeting: WCAG 3 Implied Meaning Subgroup
12:56:00 <julierawe> date: 29 oct 2024
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12:56:11 <julierawe> regrets: Jan, Rain
12:56:20 <julierawe> zakim, cler agenda
12:56:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'cler agenda', julierawe
12:56:25 <JohnRochford> present+
12:56:25 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
12:56:25 <Zakim> agenda cleared
12:57:11 <JohnRochford> Zakim, stop giving Julie a hard time.
12:57:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'stop giving Julie a hard time', JohnRochford
12:57:21 <julierawe> Agenda+ Overview of next steps for this subgroup
12:57:47 <julierawe> Ha, good morning, JohnRochford!
12:58:04 <julierawe> Agenda+ Definitions
12:58:11 <julierawe> Agenda+ Methods section
12:58:17 <julierawe> present+
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13:04:13 <julierawe> zakim, next item
13:04:13 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Overview of next steps for this subgroup -- taken up [from julierawe]
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13:04:24 <mike_beganyi> present+
13:04:38 <JohnRochford> present+
13:08:03 <julierawe> Getting whatever we have ready to publish by next week
13:08:18 <julierawe> Will decide how soon we want to start another sprint to finish the draft
13:08:22 <Laura_Carlson> present+ Laura_Carlson
13:11:55 <Laura_Carlson> Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/AGWGSubgroupParticipation_Oct_24/results
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13:12:46 <Makoto> present+
13:12:54 <LenB> presemt+
13:13:00 <JohnRochford> Oh, Laura, thanks a lot (or not!)
13:13:06 <LenB> present+
13:13:58 <julierawe> The next subgroups:
13:13:58 <julierawe> Views subgroup
13:13:58 <julierawe> Voice control subgroup
13:13:58 <julierawe> Text contrast subgroup
13:13:59 <julierawe> Text-to-speech subgroup
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13:15:29 <julierawe> zakim, next item
13:15:29 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Definitions -- taken up [from julierawe]
13:15:55 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P7fOyEPVlqf1aXuJY0SO9LeC-E7EZllg/edit#heading=h.d43df5fxyg8f
13:16:37 <kirkwood> present+
13:18:56 <julierawe> Reviewed user-centered outcome, goal and what to do
13:19:38 <julierawe> JohnRochford "Can have more than one meaning" might not be clear enough
13:24:19 <julierawe> JohnRochford A phrase with more than one implied meaning is often referred to as a polyseme.
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13:24:47 <julierawe> Over the next week, let's think about how to refine that sentence and add an example
13:30:51 <julierawe> mike_beganyi Emoji definition is good, general enough
13:32:55 <julierawe> mike_beganyi Maybe swap out sushi for an emoji that is easier to see if you have low vision
13:33:15 <julierawe> Laura_Carlson Maybe swap in a cup of tea
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13:34:52 <julierawe> Literal text: Literal text uses words’ primary dictionary definition to convey exactly what is written. Unlike figurative or non-literal language, literal text does not have implied meaning. Literal text uses the direct or denotative meaning of the words.
13:35:03 <julierawe> Frankie No one knows what "denotative" means
13:35:44 <julierawe> Let's remove the jargony "denotative"
13:37:20 <julierawe> JohnRochford Why are we mentioning "figurative"?
13:37:43 <julierawe> kirkwood I think we should keep it. Government guidance use the term and say to avoid "figurative language"
13:38:00 <julierawe> kirkwood We may need to use the term more prominently
13:38:43 <kirkwood> are missing the term “figurative language”: "Don't use figurative language" means to avoid using any language that is not meant to be taken literally, such as metaphors, similes, hyperbole, or other expressions that convey a meaning beyond the direct words used; instead, stick to plain, straightforward descriptions and statements
13:42:22 <julierawe> mike_beganyi "Primary dictionary definition" or "meaning"?
13:44:05 <julierawe> Literal text uses the direct meaning of words to convey exactly what is written. Unlike non-literal or figurative language, literal text does not have implied meaning.
13:44:49 <julierawe> Group agrees with rewording
13:45:21 <julierawe> Non-literal text uses words or phrases in a way that goes beyond their standard or dictionary meaning to express deeper, more complex ideas. This is also called figurative language. To understand it, users have to interpret the implied or connotative meaning behind the words, rather than just their literal or direct meaning.
13:45:56 <julierawe> remove "connottive"
13:46:17 <julierawe> mike_beganyi Good that it's longer
13:47:06 <julierawe> Clarification: Non-literal text does *not* include industry terms or jargon that use the literal meaning of these words or phrases. (The use of specialized terms for a general audience will be covered in a different WCAG 3 outcome.)
13:48:11 <julierawe> kirkwood It's confusing
13:49:56 <julierawe> mike_beganyi The word "cookie" as an example
13:52:40 <julierawe> zakim, next item
13:52:40 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Methods section -- taken up [from julierawe]
13:53:22 <julierawe> OK to reword to "Does the available user agent, including assistive technology, sufficiently [DELETE: Explain] [ADD: Provide an alternative to] non-literal text?
13:53:44 <julierawe> User-centered outcome: Users can access the literal meaning of text. If the text has implied meaning, users can get explanations or access an alternate version. Examples of non-literal text include sarcasm, metaphors, similes, idioms, and emoji characters.
13:54:53 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P7fOyEPVlqf1aXuJY0SO9LeC-E7EZllg/edit#bookmark=id.ku10m814n63m
13:55:01 <julierawe> Method #3: Provide an alternative to non-literal text.
13:55:01 <julierawe> Provide an alternative to non-literal text, such as a version that uses only literal text or that explains the implied meaning. se one of the techniques below to make users users must be aware of the presence of non-literal content and that an explanation is available
13:55:29 <kirkwood> provide an understandable alternative
13:56:33 <kirkwood> or a meaningful alternative?
13:58:48 <Frankie> present+
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13:59:15 <Laura_Carlson> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/29-coga-minutes.html Laura_Carlson
13:59:26 <julierawe> agenda+ Next steps
13:59:31 <julierawe> zakim, next item
13:59:31 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Next steps -- taken up [from julierawe]
13:59:57 <julierawe> Anyone who is free at 12pm ET today: Please join the Implied Meaning breakout room at the AG meeting so we can keep talking about the methods section
14:00:34 <julierawe> Asynchronous homework for everyone: Please review the Methods section over the next week so we can align at next Tuesday's meeting at 9am ET, thanks.
14:00:40 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/29-coga-minutes.html julierawe
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