IRC log of ag on 2024-10-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:32:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ag
14:32:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/10/29-ag-irc
14:32:34 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:32:35 [Zakim]
Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
14:32:38 [Chuck]
chair: Chuck
14:32:48 [Chuck]
meeting: AGWG-2024-10-29
14:33:14 [Chuck]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:33:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/29-ag-minutes.html Chuck
14:33:23 [Chuck]
regrets: Francis Storr, Roberto Scano, Todd Libby, Jennie Delisi
14:33:42 [Chuck]
agenda+ Brief subgroup status updates
14:33:47 [Chuck]
agenda?
14:33:53 [Chuck]
zakim, clear agenda
14:33:53 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:34:06 [Chuck]
agenda+ Brief subgroup status updates
14:34:16 [Chuck]
agenda+ Review WCAG 3 and Explainer Publication Kickoff
14:34:26 [Chuck]
agenda+ Current subgroup working sessions
14:42:58 [Chuck]
https://deploy-preview-116--wcag3.netlify.app/explainer/
14:55:06 [Chuck]
Chuck has joined #ag
14:55:17 [Chuck]
agenda?
14:56:56 [ChrisLoiselle]
present+
14:57:48 [BrianE]
BrianE has joined #ag
14:57:56 [bruce_bailey]
bruce_bailey has joined #ag
14:59:49 [mike_beganyi]
mike_beganyi has joined #ag
14:59:52 [mike_beganyi]
present+
15:00:06 [dj]
dj has joined #ag
15:00:15 [DJ]
present+
15:00:20 [BrianE]
present+
15:00:42 [mgarrish]
mgarrish has joined #ag
15:00:43 [MJ]
MJ has joined #ag
15:00:47 [filippo-zorzi]
filippo-zorzi has joined #ag
15:00:50 [GreggVan]
GreggVan has joined #ag
15:00:50 [bruce_bailey]
present+
15:00:55 [MJ]
present+
15:00:57 [filippo-zorzi]
present+
15:00:59 [mike_beganyi]
scribe+
15:01:00 [GreggVan]
present+
15:01:20 [giacomo-petri]
giacomo-petri has joined #ag
15:01:20 [giacomo-petri]
present+
15:01:35 [alastairc]
present+
15:01:49 [Laura_Carlson]
present+ Laura_Carlson
15:01:58 [Chuck]
present+
15:02:41 [kevin]
present+
15:02:51 [mgarrish]
present+
15:03:09 [kirkwood]
present+
15:03:13 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #ag
15:03:18 [ShawnT]
present+
15:04:09 [Frankie]
Frankie has joined #ag
15:04:15 [Frankie]
present+
15:04:17 [Makoto]
Makoto has joined #ag
15:04:28 [Makoto]
present+
15:05:12 [alastairc]
TOPIC: Announcements
15:05:33 [Glenda]
Glenda has joined #ag
15:05:45 [Azlan]
Azlan has joined #ag
15:05:47 [alastairc]
A WCAG 2.x CFC for lots of small errata / editorial updates will be coming through.
15:05:49 [Azlan]
present+
15:05:59 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: 3 topics: 1) timezone differences currently, 2) WCAG2 changes (errata mostly) updates coming out next week, 3) survey results
15:06:00 [julierawe]
julierawe has joined #ag
15:06:04 [julierawe]
present+
15:06:19 [mbgower]
mbgower has joined #ag
15:06:24 [mbgower]
present+
15:06:51 [julierawe]
Can someone share the zoom url?
15:07:10 [Glenda]
present+
15:07:39 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: Thank you to all who participated in the survey regarding joining other subgroups. I was able to get everyone into the slots they wanted for the most part. We'll be able to start work on that next week on the second hour of the AG call.
15:07:54 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: [summarizes subgroup meeting times]
15:08:28 [shadi]
shadi has joined #ag
15:08:30 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: We recommend (but are not enforcing) group leaders. When the groups meet they can choose an alternate.
15:08:50 [shadi]
present+
15:08:57 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: It's important to join the primary subgroup that I've placed you in. Please focus on joining primary subgroups.
15:09:15 [ljoakley]
ljoakley has joined #ag
15:09:36 [bruce_bailey]
q+
15:09:38 [ljoakley]
present+
15:09:45 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: Some individuals couldn't make the agreed-upon times. I will send an e-mail to those individuals and hopefully something can be worked out.
15:10:09 [mike_beganyi]
bruce_bailey: Are you putting out an e-mail that summarizes the timeslots and groups, etc.?
15:10:18 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: Will send out an e-mail in the next couple of days, yes
15:10:30 [sarahhorton]
sarahhorton has joined #ag
15:10:34 [maryjom]
maryjom has joined #ag
15:10:37 [sarahhorton]
present+
15:10:38 [maryjom]
present+
15:10:47 [Chuck]
zakim, take up item 1
15:10:47 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Brief subgroup status updates -- taken up [from Chuck]
15:10:52 [AlinaV]
AlinaV has joined #ag
15:10:59 [AlinaV]
present+
15:11:16 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: Thanks to subgroups for their work. Looking to close out the groups in the next couple of weeks. Purpose of this meeting is to summarize progress to this point.
15:11:59 [mike_beganyi]
bruce_bailey: Making progress on set of five outcomes in Keyboard subgroup. Will have tangible deliverables on the 12th. Not sure we'll have a full decision tree and methods but optimistic we'll have a lot of material to move forward with.
15:12:14 [DJ]
q+ to haptic feedback
15:12:29 [Chuck]
ack bruce
15:13:02 [Chuck]
q+ to ask about ACT briefing
15:13:06 [mike_beganyi]
...wanted to bring up two things: 1) What is the focus for the decision tree? And 2) a request to get a briefing from ACT about some of the rules they're making so as to be consistent on definitions
15:13:09 [Chuck]
ack DJ
15:13:09 [Zakim]
DJ, you wanted to haptic feedback
15:13:14 [alastairc]
Bruce - you could set the scope as the "view", e.g. within the view, the following does not happen... or something to that effect.
15:13:46 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: Are you needing help regarding facilitating briefing with ACT regarding definitions?
15:14:01 [mike_beganyi]
bruce_bailey: That would be welcome from the chairs, yes, please.
15:14:07 [bruce_bailey]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uE2WCxPmvNopdCbuZQm_-cGyEdxEouRmZ8UUIlyutoU/edit
15:14:26 [mike_beganyi]
bruce_bailey: Google Docs now allows tabs, so we're able to separate meeting minutes etc. into more clear delineations.
15:14:58 [GreggVan]
q+
15:15:12 [Chuck]
ack Ch
15:15:12 [Zakim]
Chuck, you wanted to ask about ACT briefing
15:15:31 [Chuck]
ack Gregg
15:15:55 [mike_beganyi]
GreggVan: Was just going to show tab control in Google Docs. [sahres screen indicating tabs in a sidebar area on the page]
15:16:37 [Chuck]
q?
15:16:40 [mike_beganyi]
bruce_bailey: Different from table of contents as it makes the document non-linear. Able to separate pages, essentially
15:17:17 [mike_beganyi]
DJ: Haptic Feedback updates: We're finished, just need to flag for CR.
15:17:21 [DJ]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U5DbLdJIyuIJLdLMhn1F_A0NT_D_qe4MO49F_fJ_fEA/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti
15:17:34 [dan_bjorge]
dan_bjorge has joined #ag
15:19:19 [mike_beganyi]
giacomo-petri: Section Labels: Conversation around section labels for headers and footers, and conflicts with such landmarks. Should this be handled by AT and not authors? In the process of refining our decision tree and methods. Reviewing examples from earlier and comparing them to the methods and decision tree. I think we're on track to deliver a
15:19:19 [mike_beganyi]
good first draft by the date.
15:19:32 [giacomo-petri]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rHL0Zx4tpNRMztUFXURKn1He74mjRMeDaf330a01FYs/edit?pli=1&tab=t.0#heading=h.4fu2rk4qoiti
15:21:23 [mike_beganyi]
julierawe: Implied Meaning: Focus spent on decision tree and considering feedback from others regarding methods. Trying to build a decision tree that is flexible enough but also thorough in its approach. Spent quite a bit of time on the decision tree. Currently reworking methods section. Building out tests for sufficiency but think we have enough
15:21:23 [mike_beganyi]
to build while also pausing and getting feedback from the wider group.
15:21:50 [Chuck]
q+
15:21:51 [julierawe]
julierawe has joined #ag
15:21:59 [julierawe]
I got kicked out of IRC :)
15:22:00 [julierawe]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P7fOyEPVlqf1aXuJY0SO9LeC-E7EZllg/edit
15:22:19 [Chuck]
ack Ch
15:22:22 [mike_beganyi]
alastairc: Non-text Contrast: Haven't managed to have many meanings. We have a lot of examples, a method list. We need to come back together and try to get those methods finalized. Hoping to having a decision tree and some example methods before the deadline.
15:22:56 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: You said no opportunities to meet, nevertheless you're making progress. Can you describe your method for completing work?
15:23:12 [Chuck]
q?
15:23:21 [alastairc]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bwr8ciRGP5W4zvzBQtJObxaUYRxsR5OrpYYpuK4rDyE/edit?tab=t.0
15:23:24 [mike_beganyi]
alastairc: Most of it has been asynchronous. In most cases it's been quite limited.
15:23:59 [Chuck]
zakim, take up next item
15:23:59 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Review WCAG 3 and Explainer Publication Kickoff -- taken up [from Chuck]
15:24:20 [Rachael]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag3/pull/116
15:24:46 [Rachael]
https://deploy-preview-116--wcag3.netlify.app/explainer/
15:24:50 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: Slowly working our way to a publication point. Trying to get Explainer document out.
15:25:23 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: I will walk through this a bit for discussion then review next week. Ideal if you comment on the pull request. Google Doc is available for commenting also.
15:26:01 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: Purpose of Explainer is to pull out all content that won't end up in WCAG 3.
15:26:24 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: [reviews structure of document found at previous link]
15:26:25 [JenStrickland]
JenStrickland has joined #ag
15:26:39 [JenStrickland]
present+
15:28:11 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: Chairs made a choice about how to use some terminology. Considering calling guidelines "Outcome Statements". Decided the function was similar to WCAG 2.
15:28:19 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: Comments welcome on changes.
15:29:43 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: [continues to summarize structure and edits]
15:29:51 [Chuck]
q?
15:30:50 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: This is important to publish. Please take time this week and review, comment etc. It summarizes the last six months of work so it's a priority.
15:30:52 [scott]
scott has joined #ag
15:31:02 [scott]
present+
15:31:17 [Rachael]
present+
15:31:49 [alastairc]
We could put in an editor's note saying that we are considering including "recommendations"
15:32:22 [SteveF]
SteveF has joined #ag
15:32:34 [mike_beganyi]
jkirkwood: Question about language. Two sections have a modifier of Draft. Is that intentional?
15:32:38 [SteveF]
present+
15:32:53 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: Noted the "Draft" modifier as it may be a point of discussion for some.
15:32:58 [Chuck]
zakim, take up next item
15:32:58 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Current subgroup working sessions -- taken up [from Chuck]
15:33:18 [Chuck]
zakim, take up item 2
15:33:18 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Review WCAG 3 and Explainer Publication Kickoff -- taken up [from Chuck]
15:33:35 [Rachael]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hc5fwRKZVdWPoEp-HzrCu4TTsXF36sozE45OfcYUnKU/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.ll2a2787w6ym
15:34:11 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: We're in the process of doing a lot of publication at the moment. We're a little further behind on the guidelines. All of us have done a lot of work. I want to acknowledge that this document is not fully ready for review. Please do start reviewing it from tomorrow (Wednesday).
15:34:44 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: Is it at this point clear as to what each requirement means? Doesn't necessarily mean whether you agree it belongs, but rather, is it understandable?
15:34:47 [kirkwood]
was just wondering intent of using “Draft” in both “Draft CDonformance Approach” and “Draft WCAG 3.0 Structure”. question answered
15:35:06 [LenB]
LenB has joined #ag
15:35:12 [LenB]
present+
15:35:21 [ChrisLoiselle]
q+
15:36:29 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: [summarizes structure of guidelines in their current form]
15:38:39 [Chuck]
ack Chris
15:39:18 [mike_beganyi]
ChrisLoiselle: Out of scope was perfecting language and defining terms. Key question regarding "language consistency". What's the definition?
15:39:56 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: We have certain patterns that editors are looking for. If two patterns are similar we probably want to use the same pattern. Ensuring consistency between guidelines (such as consistent use of "programmatically" versus "semantically", etc.)
15:40:24 [Chuck]
q?
15:40:54 [mike_beganyi]
Rachael: Will freeze Google Doc and hour or two before the meeting.
15:41:04 [Chuck]
zakim, take up item 3
15:41:04 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Current subgroup working sessions -- taken up [from Chuck]
15:42:09 [alastairc]
The colour contrast one will be pretty open and flexible, it's been a while since we've met so we're all getting back up to speed...
15:42:37 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: Will move into a subgroup working session. Before subgroups open: If you're not in a subgroup, you can join as an observer. I ask that you simply observe as critical work is being done to complete. Secondly, if you're not interested in observing, please review the documents that Rachael shared above (within item 2).
15:42:44 [dan_bjorge]
present+
15:42:47 [mike_beganyi]
Chuck: Opening rooms now.
15:43:54 [Rachael]
zakim, make minutes
15:43:54 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', Rachael
15:44:02 [Chuck]
zakim, generate minutes
15:44:02 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'generate minutes', Chuck
15:44:07 [Chuck]
zakim, make minutes
15:44:07 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', Chuck
15:44:08 [kevin]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:44:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/10/29-ag-minutes.html kevin
15:45:45 [alastairc]
I've pretty sparse in non-text colour contrast, if anyone wants to join us...
15:45:58 [alastairc]
Sorry, "It's pretty sparse..."
15:46:01 [Chuck]
I am joining
15:58:56 [LenB]
LenB has joined #ag
15:59:00 [LenB]
present+
16:18:08 [Graham]
Graham has joined #ag
16:18:12 [Graham]
present+
16:31:27 [LenB]
LenB has left #ag
17:17:04 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #ag
17:27:38 [Laura_Carlson]
Laura_Carlson has joined #ag
17:44:53 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #ag
17:49:28 [GreggVan]
GreggVan has joined #ag
18:00:55 [Adam_Page]
Adam_Page has joined #ag
18:02:51 [Glenda]
Glenda has joined #ag
19:04:27 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #ag
20:43:43 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #ag
21:19:01 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #ag
23:24:19 [ShawnT]
ShawnT has joined #ag